But a lot will depend on the flour itself. The variety of wheat, the soil on which it is grown, and the weather conditions all affect the flavour. Flour made with soft wheat, used for pastry and cakes, has a better flavour but doesn't rise so well. Most British wheat is soft as that is what suits our climate, so bread flour is blended with imported hard wheats, often from Canada.
We buy Doves Farm or Duchy flour - every so often we notice a subtle change in flavour presumably caused by a differen batch of flour. The nicest bread we ever made was with local wheat which we milled ourselves. It tasted wonderful but was a bit puddingy in texture. Adding extra gluten (wheat protein) powder might have improved that but we didn't know at the time.
I have never tasted Lidl Tiger Bread so don't know what you are looking for! Malt extract has much more flavour than sugar.
ah the only thing in the above that seems interesting is the Barley Malt Extract. I will have to try some. If you have a lidls you should try the Tiger loaves only keep 2 days at best but has a nice non intrusive flavour. good with butter and strawberry jam. is baked on the premises so look can vary from anaemic to over done.
I've posted an older recipe for sourdough upthread, but seeing as I've chopped and changed rather a lot, I'll set down my current formula, in case anyone's interested. Note that this is particularly tailored to my current batch of starter - it's possible that it may not work so well with other starters. At least with us, the results are usually excellent.
1 Kg wholemeal flour - we use Waitrose 'very strong Canadian'. 100 g strong white flour. 700ml warm water. 50 ml starter. 1 rounded tsp salt. 30 ml sunflower (or similar) oil. 1/2 tsp caraway seed (optional).
Day 1: Start by 'feeding' the starter two days before you want the bread - to give it a kick-start. Leave for 24 hours after which time it should be fizzing nicely.
Day 2: Pre-dough: Mix 200g of the wholemeal flour, 100 ml of warm water, and 50ml of starter in a small bowl until well blended - no need to knead at this stage. Cover bowl with clingfilm and leave in a warm place overnight. This pre-dough should have doubled in size.
Day 3: Mix the pre-dough with remaining 800 g wholemeal flour, 100 g white flour, 600 ml warm water, 30 ml oil, and caraway if used, in a 30cm earthenware bowl. Do not add the salt at this stage. Mix well, turn out onto worktop and start kneading. After about 1 minute sprinkle on the salt and continue to knead thoroughly for a total of about 10 minutes. Return to bowl, cover with clingfilm and a tea-towel, and leave to rise in airing cupboard for about 4 to 4½ hours. If all goes well the dough should now have risen above the rim of the bowl.
Knead again for about 1 minute and shape into two cob loaves: place on greased floured baking sheets. Cover with tea-towel and return to airing cupboard for a further 1 to 1½ hours. Loaves will rise but also 'spread out' somewhat.
Heat oven to 200C; re-shape the loaves (without pressing too hard - you can gently cut a pattern on the loaves at this point if you like) and bake for 30 minutes. Leave to cool on wire rack.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
I use co-op 'strong bread' flour for a basic white loaf. British, inexpensive, but still seems to be enough gluten in it to get a decent loaf (I have won prizes for my bread, and once the judge asked what flour I used!). For fancier loaves I use flours from Little Salkeld Mill. Their Unbleached White is good and tasty, but I cut a bit of Co-op in it to get a better rise). I started making bread many years ago. My first loaves, following the usual recipes, were like housebricks. Eventually, by trial and error, better books, and seeking advice from other bread makers, I 'got it'. What I currently do: first, make up 0.7oz of fermipan* yeast (Tip 1- fermipan doesn't need to be developed first in a barm fro 20 mins like some other dried yeasts, you can chuck the flour straight in) (Tip 2- use half the amount of dried yeast as a recipe suggests for fresh yeast- only found this out by reading English Bread and Yeast Cookery, Elizabeth David- no other books mentioned this very important thing- too much yeast will stop a loaf rising just as much as too little yeast) 1lb 14oz of warm water (roughly 1/4 of a pint of this I make milk because I like a softer loaf) generous pinch of Vitamin C powder (Tip 3, helps the rise) 1 teaspoon of honey (Tip 4- yeast likes it better than sugar, according to a baker I met, seems to be true) <NO FAT or OIL> (fat helps bread keep, but we either eat it within 2 days or freeze it as soon as it is cool, so I don't use fat or oil) stir this lot, then add 3 pounds 2 oz flour 2 level teaspoons salt Knead in Kenwood Chef (ideally if you do this much you want the bigger size Chef, the Major) cover with dampened linen cloth leave 2-3 hours to develop (the longer, within reason, the more digestible the bread will be) bang down, form [makes 4 oven bottoms (4oz each), 2 small loaves and one large one, I use olive oil to grease the tins]. I then dampen the tops of the loaves and sprinkle things on top - poppy seeds, sesame seeds, whatever leave to rise (approx double in volume) Oven bottoms, 15 mins @ 200 in fan oven, loaves 30 mins, out of tins, further 10 or 15 mins. Now I have a better sealed oven, I don't put a water tray in the bottom, badly sealed fan ovens may need it.
*NB Fermipan yeast is cheap and keeps well if you clamp the packet shut with a plastic clamp. Far cheaper than sachets, which are expensive and often wasteful
simonineaston wrote:Just hope you're not following the telly programme,Victorian Bakers... the episode I tried saw them kneading dough with their bare feet - eugh... Which reminds me: Why did the burglars break into the bakery? 'Cos they needed the dough!
Had some interesting walnut bread yesterday in Oklava Turkish restaurant in Shoreditch, it was served with Mejool Date butter - scrummy!
Gosh - that does sound nice!
One understands grapes are or were pressed with bare feet, is that still allowed? Another reason not to drink wine
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon, PoB, 30120 Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott We love safety cameras, we hate bullies
well I got some Barley Malt Extract from Hollands & whats you call it. Wasnt expecting it to look like dark thick engine oil. Hope it dont taste of that. Just putting a loaf in so will be interresting to see if thats the magic ingredient that Lidl uses; for oil I used rapeseed as they do.
A A Milne wrote:But the more Tigger put his nose into this and his paw into that, the more things he found which Tiggers didn't like. And when he had found everything in the cupboard, and couldn't eat any of it, he said to Kanga, "What happens now?"
But Kanga and Christopher Robin and Piglet were all standing round Roo, watching him have his Extract of Malt. And Roo was saying, "Must I?" and Kanga was saying "Now, Roo dear, you remember what you promised."
"What is it?" whispered Tigger to Piglet.
"His Strengthening Medicine," said Piglet. "He hates it."
So Tigger came closer, and he leant over the back of Roo's chair, and suddenly he put out his tongue, and took one large golollop, and, with a sudden jump of surprise, Kanga said, "Oh!" and then clutched at the spoon again just as it was disappearing, and pulled it safely back out of Tigger's mouth. But the Extract of Malt had gone.
"Tigger dear!" said Kanga.
"He's taken my medicine, he's taken my medicine, he's taken my medicine!" sang Roo happily, thinking it was a tremendous joke.
Then Tigger looked up at the ceiling, and closed his eyes, and his tongue went round and round his chops, in case he had left any outside, and a peaceful smile came over his face as he said, "So that's what Tiggers like!"
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
well I have tried usng malt extract and also cutting down the yeast from 3/4 to 1/2 tsp for a 400grm loaf. the loaf rose as well as before. seems to make a big difference. seems like the Panasonic recipe was using too much yeast, I suppose yeast does vary in potency and the last thing they want is a loaf that dont rise?
Bump! Seems that, in the supermarket at any rate, "Sourfaux" is now the name of the game.
A pity. I appreciate that not everyone has the time to make their own bread, let alone sourdough. We OAPs are lucky in that respect! My formula has hardly changed from what I posted above, except that I now leave out the white flour altogether, it's entirely wholemeal now. Still works! And still 100% kosher!
I'm not altogether convinced by the stories about 'health benefits' of eating sourdough. I make it because I like the taste - that's all. If you buy sourdough at the supermarket and it turns out to be 'sourfaux' - does it matter? There are worse things happening in the world to worry about.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
For the last 10 years or so I've only eaten home made bread. Usually 650g variations of wholemeal, strong white, rye and sometimes spelt flours, and normally mixed with up to 200g of sunflower and pumpkin seeds. One loaf lasts approximately a week. Most, if not all of the bread is only eaten toasted.
Bearing in mind the 650g total flour per loaf, how much sourdough would be required for a 50/50 wholemeal and white bread?
I've just begun a wholemeal rye and strong white sourdough starter and am wondering how to 'manage' that to provide the one loaf a week requirement?
A large gherkin jar is what I use for the starter. Just put half of that in the mixing bowl and add your flour to make the dough. Large size is 600 to 800 grams
Al
Last edited by al_yrpal on 12 Feb 2019, 7:31pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
deliquium wrote:Advice sought re ongoing sourdough 'regime'.
For the last 10 years or so I've only eaten home made bread. Usually 650g variations of wholemeal, strong white, rye and sometimes spelt flours, and normally mixed with up to 200g of sunflower and pumpkin seeds. One loaf lasts approximately a week. Most, if not all of the bread is only eaten toasted.
Bearing in mind the 650g total flour per loaf, how much sourdough would be required for a 50/50 wholemeal and white bread?
I've just begun a wholemeal rye and strong white sourdough starter and am wondering how to 'manage' that to provide the one loaf a week requirement?
Assuming your have the space, I'd suggest making two loaves at once, and putting one in the freezer until you need it. Saves energy! But use the 1-loaf-a-week regime if you prefer.
My recipe is pretty much as I posted above, except that we now use 1.1Kg wholemeal instead of 1Kg wholemeal + 100g white - i.e. we leave out the white. Your combination should work fine.
Provided you keep the starter in a closed Kilner jar (better than a screwtop jar) in the fridge (not the freezer) it should need 'feeding' only once every 2-3 weeks. In fact I've left ours for over a month and it survived. But I don't guarantee this! Nothing wrong with feeding more often (apart from the waste), so best time to feed it is the day before you want to bake. Pour away half and top up with more water and flour (2:1 ratio: 100ml water + 50g flour in our case), stir well, leave the jar open and covered in clingfilm in the warm kitchen for the next 12 hours or so. It should produce a lot of fizz - like a good beer head.
Then, just before returning the starter to the fridge, make your pre-dough. For your single loaf I'd suggest 100g flour + 50ml warm water + 25ml starter (well stirred). Mix well, cover and leave overnight. Then incorporate the pre-dough into your main dough (allowing for the amounts of flour and water already used in the pre-dough).
As it happens, today I've got a batch of sourdough on the rise - but it's taking longer than usual, I gave it nearly 7 hours on the first rise. This is quite exceptional, usually it's 4 hours - but sourdough can be capricious.
Good luck!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
All posts on forums can be confusing. Sorry if I wasn't clear this time (I typed quickly because the bread was about to go in the oven).
Anyway, I mean this sort of jar: and I mean, don't snap the lid shut for the few hours after a feed, leave it open but instead cover the top of the jar with clingfilm.
I also put clingfilm over the bowl in which the dough is rising (especially if it's going to take 7 hours). Not very environmentally-friendly, but at least it keeps the dough from drying out.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity. Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments... --- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
What’s a 