My New Bike

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Mick F
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Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: My New Bike

Postby Mick F » 3 Mar 2016, 7:58pm

Thanks! :D

Yes, I did consider hub gears, and if you trawl though my recent posts, you'll see that I was considering a combination of hub gears and derailleurs.

Main issue with smaller wheel bikes is the lack high gears. Low gears aren't a problem of course.
The outer chainring is 58t and the smallest cog is 11t. Combined with wheel/tyre combination, the top gear is 98"
This may be fine for most folk, as most folk don't live in such a hilly area. I need low gears for climbing, but high gears for going down the other side. Yes, I could freewheel, but powering along is better IMHO.

Flatlandia people would be fine with 98" ............... and even I'm happy with it on the flat.

The only way to get up to 115" is to fit a bigger chainwheel with the 11t .............. but it would need a 70t chainring! :shock:
Other option is to get a Capreo hub. They go down to 9t so I could get away with only 56t maybe.

Either alternative is cost prohibitive, especially the Capreo.

My idea was to fit a 3sp SA with a 10sp cassette. This should work out cheaper to get 115"
Maybe someone could do a cost/benefit analysis?
Not that I'm going to bother. :wink:

Cost of the bike?
I said "cheap" because it compares favourably with the 16 grand for the top of the range.
I also bought the bike using a credit card with zero interest. I'll chuck money at the card monthly as and when I can afford it.
Mick F. Cornwall

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: My New Bike

Postby pete75 » 3 Mar 2016, 10:07pm

reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote:Are you sure about the spares? You can get the bits to repair Ergos not sure if the same is available for STI.


That's because they don't break* like Campag do :wink:


*well anything up to and including 9sp don't :)

You may be right , my son's Veloce shifter broke after a 6 wheel lorry hit him though I for one am fairly sure any speed of STi would have broken under the circumstances. Like all mechanical parts both makes are subject to wear . I have both and I much prefer using Campag ergo to sti which either have a too small button on the side or flippy flappy brake levers.

Dafydd17
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013, 3:56pm

Re: My New Bike

Postby Dafydd17 » 3 Mar 2016, 11:28pm

SpannerGeek wrote:Looks good Mick, I'm looking for a cheap 1970s model if anyone has one in their shed!


I've sent you a PM about this.

reohn2
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Re: My New Bike

Postby reohn2 » 4 Mar 2016, 12:23am

pete75 wrote:You may be right , my son's Veloce shifter broke after a 6 wheel lorry hit him though I for one am fairly sure any speed of STi would have broken under the circumstances.

I don't see your point :?
Like all mechanical parts both makes are subject to wear .

Anything mechanical wears out eventually,IME STI's don't wear out and break like Campag units tend to.
I've two pair of 9sp STI's on tandems with 10years and over 25K miles on them,they work like new.I've also had other 9sp STI's with cover similar mileages without issue,I've also had a pair of RSX 7sp STI's with over 70k miles on that similarly didn't need anymore attention than flooding with semi fluid grease a couple of times when they got little sticky.
What more can I say other than Shimano road STI's IME are super long lasting kit.
I also have friends with similar stories.
I have both and I much prefer using Campag ergo to sti which either have a too small button on the side or flippy flappy brake levers.

That's your preference,don't let me stop from enjoying them :)
I've never used Campag,but find Shimano STI's work very well for me :) .
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Location: English Riviera

Re: My New Bike

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 4 Mar 2016, 12:30am

Hi,
Never riden one.
What's the high speed cornering like :?:
I would imagine that with small wheels the tyre would start to scuff a lot.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

PH
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Re: My New Bike

Postby PH » 4 Mar 2016, 1:35am

lovely colour.
Bottle positions on small or folding bikes often seem to give trouble, I get round it by using a bar mount.

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Mick F
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Re: My New Bike

Postby Mick F » 4 Mar 2016, 5:57am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:What's the high speed cornering like :?:
I would imagine that with small wheels the tyre would start to scuff a lot.
Not sure as yet.
However, there's a fairly fast left turn I take regularly and there's an unfortunately positioned fire hydrant cover just on the line I want to take.
Yesterday, I took that corner like I normally do and went inside it, whereas I have difficulty when on the Mercian and usually have to go outside it ............. which TBH is a little too wide.
Maybe I wasn't going as fast, or there was some other difference?
I don't know as yet, but I'll be monitoring any differences in cornering or performance. Yesterday, I did a 5m test ride, then another 15m later so it's early day's yet.
PH wrote:lovely colour.
Bottle positions on small or folding bikes often seem to give trouble, I get round it by using a bar mount.
Thanks. :lol:
It's Claret.

I'm giving the water bottle position some thought.
Possibly, I'll just get used to it.
Mick F. Cornwall

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[XAP]Bob
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Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: My New Bike

Postby [XAP]Bob » 4 Mar 2016, 6:12am

Mick F wrote:Thanks! :D

Yes, I did consider hub gears, and if you trawl though my recent posts, you'll see that I was considering a combination of hub gears and derailleurs.

Main issue with smaller wheel bikes is the lack high gears. Low gears aren't a problem of course.
The outer chainring is 58t and the smallest cog is 11t. Combined with wheel/tyre combination, the top gear is 98"
This may be fine for most folk, as most folk don't live in such a hilly area. I need low gears for climbing, but high gears for going down the other side. Yes, I could freewheel, but powering along is better IMHO.

Flatlandia people would be fine with 98" ............... and even I'm happy with it on the flat.

The only way to get up to 115" is to fit a bigger chainwheel with the 11t .............. but it would need a 70t chainring! :shock:
Other option is to get a Capreo hub. They go down to 9t so I could get away with only 56t maybe.

Either alternative is cost prohibitive, especially the Capreo.

My idea was to fit a 3sp SA with a 10sp cassette. This should work out cheaper to get 115"
Maybe someone could do a cost/benefit analysis?
Not that I'm going to bother. :wink:

Cost of the bike?
I said "cheap" because it compares favourably with the 16 grand for the top of the range.
I also bought the bike using a credit card with zero interest. I'll chuck money at the card monthly as and when I can afford it.

I did the cost analysis a while ago in the HpV section.
For what it's worth I ended up with the SA CS-RK3 (non disc version also available) 3spd hub with 9 speed cassette. Combined with my triple up front that gives ~10-120" IIRC. (81 settings, 45 gears)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Mick F
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Re: My New Bike

Postby Mick F » 4 Mar 2016, 6:56am

[XAP]Bob wrote:................ 3spd hub with 9 speed cassette. Combined with my triple up front that gives ~10-120" IIRC. (81 settings, 45 gears)
Thanks!
Yes, I reckon this is the way forward for small-wheeled bikes/trikes.
I had the idea to buy just the frame-set and build up a bespoke bike. Not really sure why I didn't, but maybe I was too impatient for getting it on the road! :D
reohn2 wrote:.............71 head angle with the Moulton fork offset would be nice and relaxed too I'd have thought.
Mick F wrote:If I'm bored later, I may measure fork offset.
I think I can do it with bits of string and a ruler. :lol:
I tried with string and ruler but the best I could get was about 45mm. Could have been more, but not as much as 50mm.
I've played with a picture and drawn lines on it. Hopefully it'll show something. The bit that foiled me with my Heath Robinson methods, is that the main fork is set back from the centre-line of the head tube.
Front Forks.png
Mick F. Cornwall

Tiberius
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Joined: 31 Dec 2014, 8:45am
Location: North East England

Re: My New Bike

Postby Tiberius » 4 Mar 2016, 7:39am

Mick F. Many thanks for the info re gearing....Interesting stuff.

Lovely machine.....summer's coming !!...... :D

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: My New Bike

Postby reohn2 » 4 Mar 2016, 8:17am

Thanks for taking the trouble with the fork offset geometry figures,i reckeon the offset is about 50mm or there abouts looking at it,which means it's a similar steering geometry to my Vayas,it explains why it's so easy to ride it no hands.
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Dafydd17
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Joined: 14 Dec 2013, 3:56pm

Re: My New Bike

Postby Dafydd17 » 4 Mar 2016, 9:43am

reohn2 wrote:
IME STI's don't wear out and break like Campag units tend to.

I've never used Campag,but find Shimano STI's work very well for me :) .


?????????

Tiberius
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Location: North East England

Re: My New Bike

Postby Tiberius » 4 Mar 2016, 9:53am

Dafydd17 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
IME STI's don't wear out and break like Campag units tend to.

I've never used Campag,but find Shimano STI's work very well for me :) .


?????????


..... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: .........

Geoff.D
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Joined: 12 Mar 2010, 9:20pm

Re: My New Bike

Postby Geoff.D » 4 Mar 2016, 10:13am

[XAP]Bob wrote:For what it's worth I ended up with the SA CS-RK3 (non disc version also available) 3spd hub with 9 speed cassette. Combined with my triple up front that gives ~10-120" IIRC. (81 settings, 45 gears)


+1
After following Bob's thread on this conversion, and then a visit to see his conversion in-situ (there's an off-set in the rear track of the ICE trike that needs care in the wheel building), I went down the same path. I've not been disappointed. For the vast majority of the time I use direct drive in the hub. Occasionally I've had to drop into "low" (Fleet Moss from Hawes with camping gear on). But I don't often go into the top range. I'm happy to let Einsteins curveature of space-time give me my just rewards downhill, having slogged up !!

MGate
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Re: My New Bike

Postby MGate » 4 Mar 2016, 10:13am

Good Choice MickF. I've just converted for a friend a Moulton APB 8 speed Gripshift to a 3 by 8 using a Campag Chainset and long cage mech, still using grip shift as he prefers flat bars. Looks bonny.

Also this bike suffered a little from 'stiction' in the from suspension - the nylon bung that goes at the end of the front suspension spring was binding a little in the head tube. I polished out the imperfections using a drill and a rod that used to clean 12 bore barrels! Now the bike is buttery smooth. So interesting to watch the front end soak up road buzz as well as bigger imperfections while you enjoy magic carpet smoothness. Find a high cadence style of pedalling irons out any tendency to 'bob' but you can adjust the damping at the front by tightening or slackening the nylocs on the link.

Campag or Shimano - well I've broken both and repaired both - but I will freely admit (with no scientific basis) that I prefer Campag, no justification, but I just love it and as such am more prepared to forgive any imperfections... Ok I'll duck for cover now...

Enjoy the ride!