Brexit consequences

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Psamathe
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby Psamathe » 9 Jul 2016, 3:59pm

blackbike wrote:The bad loser Remain tactic of describing Leave voters as racist, stupid and gullible strikes me as an unintelligent approach, revealing the naivety and poor social skills of those who employ it....

Not something you would do (hint: read what you have written).

Ian

blackbike
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby blackbike » 9 Jul 2016, 4:23pm

Psamathe wrote:
blackbike wrote:The bad loser Remain tactic of describing Leave voters as racist, stupid and gullible strikes me as an unintelligent approach, revealing the naivety and poor social skills of those who employ it....

Not something you would do (hint: read what you have written).

Ian


I'm Leave.

Leave won.

Because I'm a kind and considerate type of chap I'm letting Remainers know how unintelligent they are with the dreadful tactics which probably lost them an easy referendum win.

In any walk of life telling others they are stupid, and racist too in this case, is not a very clever way to persuade them over to your side.

It borders on the idiotic.

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bovlomov
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby bovlomov » 9 Jul 2016, 4:51pm

We get it! You voted Leave. You won!

Now, will you be happy if the UK signs up to a block of thousands of EU regulations over which it has no input, as a condition for access to EU markets? That's what Norway has done, and Norway was proposed by Leave advocates as a model the UK could follow (albeit in apparent ignorance of the details). If that's OK, how is it different from the 'giving up sovereignty' that the tabloids were so fond of parroting?

Children under 8 will be just as forbidden from blowing up balloons as before. Bananas will still have the same maximum numbers per bunch as before.

[Edited for ungarbling]
Last edited by bovlomov on 9 Jul 2016, 5:18pm, edited 1 time in total.

Psamathe
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby Psamathe » 9 Jul 2016, 4:58pm

blackbike wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
blackbike wrote:The bad loser Remain tactic of describing Leave voters as racist, stupid and gullible strikes me as an unintelligent approach, revealing the naivety and poor social skills of those who employ it....

Not something you would do (hint: read what you have written).

Ian


I'm Leave.

Leave won.

Because I'm a kind and considerate type of chap I'm letting Remainers know how unintelligent they are with the dreadful tactics which probably lost them an easy referendum win.

In any walk of life telling others they are stupid, and racist too in this case, is not a very clever way to persuade them over to your side.

It borders on the idiotic.

But then some might say telling lies (e.g. UK cannot stop Turkey joining the EU, e.g. £350 million a week, UK to be forced to join an EU army, e.g. £350 million a week for the NHS, etc., etc.) to get people to vote the way you want them to then straight after the vote to start "oh, it was a mistake to offer that ..." is maybe not the pinnacle of responsible political campaigning (result=voters feel cheated).

Ian

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bovlomov
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby bovlomov » 9 Jul 2016, 5:29pm

Racist? Stupid? Ignorant?
- There is evidence that racism* played its part in the leave vote. We'll never know to what degree.
- I've met relatively few stupid people. If that is representative across the UK, then stupidity will have had a very small effect on the vote.
- Ignorance is widespread. Ignorance of the EU is endemic. Ignorance of what Brexit means is universal.

I hope that's made things clear.

[* meaning an irrational dislike of foreigners. Perhaps not the correct definition, but how it is generally meant in this context.]

blackbike
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby blackbike » 9 Jul 2016, 5:32pm

Psamathe wrote:
blackbike wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Not something you would do (hint: read what you have written).

Ian


I'm Leave.

Leave won.

Because I'm a kind and considerate type of chap I'm letting Remainers know how unintelligent they are with the dreadful tactics which probably lost them an easy referendum win.

In any walk of life telling others they are stupid, and racist too in this case, is not a very clever way to persuade them over to your side.

It borders on the idiotic.

But then some might say telling lies (e.g. UK cannot stop Turkey joining the EU, e.g. £350 million a week, UK to be forced to join an EU army, e.g. £350 million a week for the NHS, etc., etc.) to get people to vote the way you want them to then straight after the vote to start "oh, it was a mistake to offer that ..." is maybe not the pinnacle of responsible political campaigning (result=voters feel cheated).

Ian


I don't hear of many Leave voters claiming to have been cheated into voting the 'wrong' way, just many Remain ones claiming they were.

So it is just the usual case of self-proclaimed clever Remain voters telling Leave voters they are stupid and gullible.

Remain lost and lost badly, due to Cameron's laughable, embarrassing, non-enforceable renegotiation with the EU, their ridiculous scaremongering, their support from TTIP supporting greedy big business and EU grant recipients in the arts and TV, their cynical attempts to exploit the murder of Jo Cox and last but not least their crass decision to label their opponents as stupid and racist.

It is hard to imagine a more amateurish campaign.

And these foolish and dim amateurs have the nerve to call others stupid!

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bovlomov
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby bovlomov » 9 Jul 2016, 5:54pm

blackbike wrote:I don't hear of many Leave voters claiming to have been cheated into voting the 'wrong' way

That's because they are too stupid to have realised!

And this insult - of leave voters being called stupid - is the only instance since 23 June on this forum. According to my quick search, at least.

Psamathe
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby Psamathe » 9 Jul 2016, 5:57pm

blackbike wrote:...I don't hear of many Leave voters claiming to have been cheated into voting the 'wrong' way, just many Remain ones claiming they were.

So it is just the usual case of self-proclaimed clever Remain voters telling Leave voters they are stupid and gullible.
...

(No insult intended but I don't count people I communicate with over the internet as "know"), every person I know who voted Leave would now vote Remain after the truth has emerged. One person (a neighbour) was quite shocked when I told him how the cost of £350m a week was not actually a real cost (things like rebates, money returning to the UK, grants, etc. being conveniently ignored).

I also have not noticed any Remain voters telling Leave voters they are being stupid or unintelligent or gullible. So must be personal experience ?

(you can call an action "daft" without calling the person making that decision "daft" e.g. I sometimes make "daft" decisions but don't feel that makes me daft, some prominent politicians have made some "daft" decisions without it reflecting on their intelligence).

Ian

pete75
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby pete75 » 9 Jul 2016, 6:18pm

Psamathe wrote:I also have not noticed any Remain voters telling Leave voters they are being stupid or unintelligent or gullible. So must be personal experience ?


Ian



Yes - that usually done by someone who knows a person as an individual...

Vorpal
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby Vorpal » 9 Jul 2016, 8:22pm

blackbike wrote:I don't hear of many Leave voters claiming to have been cheated into voting the 'wrong' way, just many Remain ones claiming they were.

Cheated? I'm not sure about that, but I've seen several things like these

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 13336.html
http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/02/bregret-1 ... u-5980332/
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 86381.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 02516.html
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Psamathe
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby Psamathe » 10 Jul 2016, 2:10pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-pound-sterling-bitcoin-prices-unstable-volatile-exchange-referendum-a7129311.html wrote:Pound sterling becomes more unstable than Bitcoin following Brexit

Bitcoin, long held as the standard for instability, is becoming a safe refuge when compared to the post-Brexit pound


Well, we were warned (and told by Blobby/Gove/IDS/Leadsom to ignore that advice).

Ian

pete75
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby pete75 » 10 Jul 2016, 4:06pm

Vorpal wrote:
blackbike wrote:I don't hear of many Leave voters claiming to have been cheated into voting the 'wrong' way, just many Remain ones claiming they were.

Cheated? I'm not sure about that, but I've seen several things like these

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 13336.html
http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/02/bregret-1 ... u-5980332/
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 86381.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 02516.html


And this - once the sun and mail ran articles about the economic consequences of Brexit - after the Referendum.
Leave voters are having second thoughts now "project fear" is becoming project reality.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/articl ... 1772TI4aNW

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/articl ... WySvafrAVZ

reohn2
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby reohn2 » 10 Jul 2016, 7:20pm

Blackbike
A prediction:-
The UK will rue the day it voted out of the EU,and I go as far as to say NONE of the puff and wind predictions the OUT camp predicted will come true.

You're free to come back to me in 5 years time to prove me wrong,but I think you'll be disappointed
-----------------------------------------------------------

PH
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby PH » 10 Jul 2016, 7:51pm

I've just watched the Panorama program - Why we voted to leave, I really hope the people chosen to represent the case were not typical.
There was an unemployed father of 6, with a horse in his garden, who lost his job because East Europeans would do it for half the price, without any consideration that this was more about exploitative employers. The jobs he could get didn't pay enough to support his family, again no discussion on the Tory cuts to Tax Credits or the lack of opportunity to increase his skill set.
There was another bloke who couldn't get a council house because they all went to the immigrants, without any mention that most council houses were sold off in the great Tory giveaway.
There was a business man, a Cambridge graduate of history no less, who objected to all the EU red tape, the best example of which he could think of was that he'd been asked to estimate how much waste packaging his company produced.
There was a disabled young care worker who was so pleased that she'd had a say and that for the first time her vote had counted for something, yet she'd never voted before.
A retired gas worker, who thinks the empty West Midlands factories will reopen now we've taken our country back.
If you think I've missed something out or misrepresented this, have a look for yourself;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07k7m4x

blackbike
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Re: Brexit consequences

Postby blackbike » 10 Jul 2016, 8:09pm

PH wrote:I've just watched the Panorama program - Why we voted to leave, I really hope the people chosen to represent the case were not typical.
There was an unemployed father of 6, with a horse in his garden, who lost his job because East Europeans would do it for half the price, without any consideration that this was more about exploitative employers. The jobs he could get didn't pay enough to support his family, again no discussion on the Tory cuts to Tax Credits or the lack of opportunity to increase his skill set.
There was another bloke who couldn't get a council house because they all went to the immigrants, without any mention that most council houses were sold off in the great Tory giveaway.
There was a business man, a Cambridge graduate of history no less, who objected to all the EU red tape, the best example of which he could think of was that he'd been asked to estimate how much waste packaging his company produced.
There was a disabled young care worker who was so pleased that she'd had a say and that for the first time her vote had counted for something, yet she'd never voted before.
A retired gas worker, who thinks the empty West Midlands factories will reopen now we've taken our country back.
If you think I've missed something out or misrepresented this, have a look for yourself;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07k7m4x


No point in a programme asking why the minority voted Remain.

Their reasons are irrelevant.