Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

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Vorpal
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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby Vorpal » 17 Jul 2016, 10:03am

bovlomov wrote:
JohnW wrote:
53x13 wrote:..............What then for a divided UK, out of Europe, casually eaten away by factionism and forgotten on the international stage.............................


Exactly!.......................but - could Nicola Sturgeon be persuaded to move Hadrian's wall, and the border, south by about 100 miles?

With London as a Scottish enclave.

:lol: :lol: My in-laws, who were second generation London Scots and now live in the wilds of Suffolk, are threatening to return to their ancestral homeland.
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mercalia
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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby mercalia » 17 Jul 2016, 10:19am

Vorpal wrote:
bovlomov wrote:
JohnW wrote:
Exactly!.......................but - could Nicola Sturgeon be persuaded to move Hadrian's wall, and the border, south by about 100 miles?

With London as a Scottish enclave.

:lol: :lol: My in-laws, who were second generation London Scots and now live in the wilds of Suffolk, are threatening to return to their ancestral homeland.


LUCKY YOU :wink:

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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby rualexander » 17 Jul 2016, 10:11pm

JohnW wrote:Exactly!.......................but - could Nicola Sturgeon be persuaded to move Hadrian's wall, and the border, south by about 100 miles?

Wait a minute, didn't the north of England have a majority vote to leave the EU?

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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby JohnW » 17 Jul 2016, 10:42pm

rualexander wrote:
JohnW wrote:Exactly!.......................but - could Nicola Sturgeon be persuaded to move Hadrian's wall, and the border, south by about 100 miles?

Wait a minute, didn't the north of England have a majority vote to leave the EU?


Yeah - but they'll regret it when they're made to wear kilts.............wind of change and all that.

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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby reohn2 » 17 Jul 2016, 11:13pm

JohnW wrote:
rualexander wrote:
JohnW wrote:Exactly!.......................but - could Nicola Sturgeon be persuaded to move Hadrian's wall, and the border, south by about 100 miles?

Wait a minute, didn't the north of England have a majority vote to leave the EU?


Yeah - but they'll regret it when they're made to wear kilts.............wind of change and all that.


Hoots Mon! :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Jul 2016, 12:16am

Just back from Scotland, most of the kilt wearers spoke with an.American accent, excluding those working in tourism that is. Something to do with finding their roots or something. Seems people are proud of being.Scottish even when they're not.

I think the only place to move to is Berwick on Tweed, isn't that kind of permanently in transition to or from Scottish control? Sorry Bearaig a Deas I should say.

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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby Tangled Metal » 18 Jul 2016, 12:42am

53x13 wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:How much weight can you place on a poll of 8404 people across 6 EU states?

Are the people asked among the governments of the 4 EU states out of the 6 with a vote on this?

Link was to an SNP Twitter account...


As it's an Article 50 affected decision, it only takes a majority of the member states to vote and Scotland is back in the fold of the EU. A veto vote is not applicable in an article 50 event. So 15/28 states would have to vote Yes. Which, given the antipathy towards the rUK and the desire to give the Brexiters a bloody nose, shouldn't be a difficult ask at all.

The Poll was from an official You Gov European agency. what's your point? None, I would imagine.

I guess my point is you gov is an internet based pollster, although with a decent record compared to its competitors, is just a poll of the general public of 4 nations of any relevance to accepting an independent Scotland back in to the EU. It is not a poll of anyone with any power to vote Scotland back in. Article 50 refers to leaving the EU and once invoked applies to Scotland as much as rUK.

Once the UK has invoked article 50 there's 2 years to separate (longer if rEU accept extension). This could give time for an independence vote but I seriously doubt this divorce would happen before the EU one. That leaves an independent Scotland needing to get back into EU. Majority vote? Doubt that somehow. Why would Scotland have a different entry procedure than any other country? All 27 rEU countries would have to vote for entry.

So back to.that poll, it has no relevance because it's the political leaders who vote for Scottish re-entry not the general public. It's not a general election so polls are not that relevant. One last point, since when did political leaders in power do everything according to the results of polls? Would polls go with Osborne's austerity, the attack on the poor, the assault on our social welfare system, etc.? Would polls go with Blair's dodgy dossier and Iraq war? Perhaps the last one the answer is yes because we're a bit too ready to go to war I reckon,

Still this idea of Scotland getting right back in is as long as the Brexit ideas IMHO so perhaps it will happen too.

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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby 53x13 » 18 Jul 2016, 6:49am

Sturgeon signalled yesterday an intention to have a second indyref in the first 6 months of next year, should Article 50 be put in to play in an expected December time frame. She'll definitely lever this decision with as much force as possible given the 62/38 Remain vote north of the border.

Having such a vote whilst still a member of the EU, and if successful gives them tremendous leverage to remain in the EU as a member who is being 'involuntarily' dragged out of it by what may well be by then (given the trio of Muppet's May has quite cleverly (imo) put in place to negotiate it, a very unpopular rUK.

Most politicical pundits agree that a second indyref held under those circumstances would be a landslide Yes.

It would also make the possibility of another EU referendum more likely, and a good opportunity to give rUK a kick in the teeth, when they were down.

Brussels is probably salivating at the utter mayhem (politically and financial) that this will cause. It's clear we're in for a very interesting, if unstable 2017.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-36819182

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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby gottogetfit » 18 Jul 2016, 10:57am

We voted as the UK. The result is that of the UK. Scotland is part of the UK. The UK voted to leave. What part of that does Nicola Sturgeon not understand. Harrogate voted remain. Independent Yorkshire I say!

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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby RickH » 18 Jul 2016, 11:16am

gottogetfit wrote:We voted as the UK. The result is that of the UK. Scotland is part of the UK. The UK voted to leave. What part of that does Nicola Sturgeon not understand. Harrogate voted remain. Independent Yorkshire I say!

But the people of Scotland were being told by the "No" side in the last independence referendum that the only way to stay in the EU was to stay in the UK. Anyone who was swayed by that argument will justifiably feel aggrieved if they are now being told that they have to leave the EU because the UK as a whole voted for it.

If Scotland became (or was on the path to) independence before the UK leaves the EU there might be the possibility of a then independent Scotland staying in as the rUK leaves. If that is a possibility then a Scotland staying in scenario might only need a majority vote rather than the unanimity for them leaving, with the rest of the UK, & then joining as an independent country. The likelihood of it being possible is probably more dependent on the political will of enough of the remaining EU rather than anything decided in Westminster.

Rick.

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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby Psamathe » 18 Jul 2016, 1:28pm

RickH wrote:
gottogetfit wrote:We voted as the UK. The result is that of the UK. Scotland is part of the UK. The UK voted to leave. What part of that does Nicola Sturgeon not understand. Harrogate voted remain. Independent Yorkshire I say!

But the people of Scotland were being told by the "No" side in the last independence referendum that the only way to stay in the EU was to stay in the UK. Anyone who was swayed by that argument will justifiably feel aggrieved if they are now being told that they have to leave the EU because the UK as a whole voted for it.....

To me that is a very significant point. Very much a "vote to stay in UK to stay in the EU" then not that long later "despite the wishes of your country you are leaving the EU anyway".

And whatever the feeling amongst the Scottish electorate, it does provide a powerful campaigning issue for the SNP; a real "Westminster forcing this on us against our [Scottish] wishes" - which might sway some who are not too concerned about the EU.

Ian

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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby georgew » 18 Jul 2016, 2:31pm

gottogetfit wrote:We voted as the UK. The result is that of the UK. Scotland is part of the UK. The UK voted to leave. What part of that does Nicola Sturgeon not understand. Harrogate voted remain. Independent Yorkshire I say!



So you equate Yorkshire, a Region of England with Scotland which is a Nation and one which voted to remain in the EU? Not only that but a Nation which was specifically told by all senior Unionist politicians that only by voting "No" in the Independence referendum could they be sure of staying in the union.

Here's the thing....England and Scotland joined together in an act of union and on terms of equality between the two Nations. Yet it seems you believe that England has the right to drag Scotland out of the EU despite our stated wish to remain....good luck with that.

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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby al_yrpal » 18 Jul 2016, 4:06pm

My hope is that the Scots have a legal referendum soon to settle their independence question once and for all. I hope they don't leave the Union but if they do thats their choice. As the recent EU referendum shows referendums dont stop the grumbling losers. The sole purpose of the SNP is to attain independence regardless of the the economic and human cost. I hope Scotlands Yes voters realise that.

Meanwhile, onwards and upwards…

Al
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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby PDQ Mobile » 18 Jul 2016, 4:19pm

al_yrpal wrote:As the recent EU referendum shows referendums dont stop the grumbling losers. The sole purpose of the SNP is to attain independence regardless of the the economic and human cost. I hope Scotlands Yes voters realise that.

Meanwhile, onwards and upwards…

Al

That is terribly familiar. Sounds like Brexit.

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Re: Another Scottish Referendum just around the corner?

Postby georgew » 18 Jul 2016, 4:24pm

al_yrpal wrote:My hope is that the Scots have a legal referendum soon to settle their independence question once and for all. I hope they don't leave the Union but if they do thats their choice. As the recent EU referendum shows referendums dont stop the grumbling losers. The sole purpose of the SNP is to attain independence regardless of the the economic and human cost. I hope Scotlands Yes voters realise that.

Meanwhile, onwards and upwards…

Al




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