Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

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Freddie
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Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby Freddie » 19 Jul 2016, 11:20am

I wonder if the recent surge in Islamically motivated attacks by North Africans (Nice; now news of an axe attack on a train in Germany: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07 ... y-injured/) will affect freedom of movement to the UK from the EU, post Brexit.

With respect to the Nice attacker, it seems he lived a rather westernised, seemingly non-muslim lifestyle (according to some accounts he drank alcohol and ate pork) until very recently before the attack. Does this mean that he very quickly changed his outlook or that the westernised lifestyle was a ruse, so that he wouldn't draw attention to himself? If the former, then it seems radicalisation needn't be a lengthy process, which is rather worrying; the latter is no less worrying, previous attackers being notably more extreme in their outlook prior to the attack.

If somebody is showing no signs of Islamist views prior to an attack, how on earth do security services recognise them as a potential threat?

Thankfully, the UK has remained free of Islamically motivated terror attacks for some time now; who knows how many potential attacks have been foiled by security services since Lee Rigby was run over and beheaded in the streets in 2013.

I have no idea how you prevent such attacks in their entirety, but stopping freedom of movement to the UK from Europe may be one answer to limiting them, at least here in the UK. It seems nobody in any metropolitan area, particularly at any large gathering of people, is safe from the potential of such an attack any more.

My condolences to the families of those killed in these recent attacks.

blackbike
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby blackbike » 19 Jul 2016, 11:25am

Freddie wrote:

Thankfully, the UK has remained free of Islamically motivated terror attacks for some time now



Yes. Since April.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-g ... t-36733744

Freddie
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby Freddie » 19 Jul 2016, 11:29am

I had forgotten about that poor man. So many attacks have happened since then, I can't believe that was only in April.

blackbike
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby blackbike » 19 Jul 2016, 11:38am

Freddie wrote:I had forgotten about that poor man. So many attacks have happened since then, I can't believe that was only in April.


I'm not entirely surprised you'd forgotten about the story.

For such a horrific hate crime, and so obviously pre-meditated, It only received minimal coverage and the social commentators who are usually so eager to analyse and criticise were not very active.

Why this was we can only guess.

reohn2
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby reohn2 » 19 Jul 2016, 1:54pm

blackbike wrote:
For such a horrific hate crime, and so obviously pre-meditated, It only received minimal coverage and the social commentators who are usually so eager to analyse and criticise were not very active.

Why this was we can only guess.


Maybe because a Muslim killed a Muslim.
Maybe because it was high profile as in numbers,as many people have no doubt been murdered in the UK this year.
Maybe because it was a strictly 'terrorist' attack.
Maybe the Muslim community asked for a low profile so it wouldn't spark off other similar attacks within their religious community.

Plenty maybe's there but IMO it's because of all of those things and that 'only' one person lost their life,and because it wasn't anyone famous or a member of the armed forces.

Acts of 'terrorism' are usually jumped on by the media when they've been 'successful' in killing many people by the terrorists.

Syria's gone quiet media wise,but I'd bet there's a fair bit of terrorism taking place there ATM.
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Mick F
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby Mick F » 19 Jul 2016, 2:01pm

Freddie wrote: ............. now news of an axe attack on a train in Germany ......
I heard on the news that he was shot dead by the police.

Why shoot a man with an axe?

Taser?
Big net thrown over him?
Shoot him in the legs?
Loads of ways to disable someone without actually killing them.

Trouble is, many of them actually WANT to be killed. Best thing is NOT to kill them but lock them up alive instead of creating yet another martyr.
Mick F. Cornwall

reohn2
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby reohn2 » 19 Jul 2016, 2:12pm

Mick F wrote:
Freddie wrote: ............. now news of an axe attack on a train in Germany ......
I heard on the news that he was shot dead by the police.

Why shoot a man with an axe?

Taser?
Big net thrown over him?
Shoot him in the legs?
Loads of ways to disable someone without actually killing them.

Trouble is, many of them actually WANT to be killed. Best thing is NOT to kill them but lock them up alive instead of creating yet another martyr.


Yep equipe every police officer with a net just in case,that'll be reet :?
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blackbike
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby blackbike » 19 Jul 2016, 2:18pm

Mick F wrote:
Freddie wrote: ............. now news of an axe attack on a train in Germany ......
I heard on the news that he was shot dead by the police.

Why shoot a man with an axe?

Taser?
Big net thrown over him?
Shoot him in the legs?
Loads of ways to disable someone without actually killing them.

Trouble is, many of them actually WANT to be killed. Best thing is NOT to kill them but lock them up alive instead of creating yet another martyr.



Why not shoot him? It can be done at a distance with no threat to the person shooting and is the quickest way to stop him chopping other people up.
Last edited by blackbike on 19 Jul 2016, 2:20pm, edited 1 time in total.

Postboxer
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby Postboxer » 19 Jul 2016, 2:19pm

German police appear to be economical with their bullets,

https://www.rt.com/usa/us-germany-85-shots-022/

Basic story is, in 2011, the German police only fired 85 shots in total, the US police fired more than that at one suspect.

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Mick F
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby Mick F » 19 Jul 2016, 2:21pm

Because (pardon the pun) it's overkill.
Far better to disable him and arrest him and punish him.

Giving him the pleasure of being martyred is sending out the wrong message.

Our coppers have tasers, why not use them instead of lethal force?
Mick F. Cornwall

reohn2
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby reohn2 » 19 Jul 2016, 2:31pm

Mick F wrote:Because (pardon the pun) it's overkill.
Far better to disable him and arrest him and punish him.

Giving him the pleasure of being martyred is sending out the wrong message.

Our coppers have tasers, why not use them instead of lethal force?


What if they miss with a Tazer or can't get close enough?
What if the suspect is armed.

I don't like saying this but if terrorist attacks increase there maybe more UK police need arming.

As for martyrdom frankly I'd send he/she to Allah PDQ if it meant saving innocents suffering or dying
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Mick F
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby Mick F » 19 Jul 2016, 2:33pm

I'm saying he had an axe, not a gun.
No need to shoot him dead. Wound him instead? Shoot him in the feet or legs.
Mick F. Cornwall

blackbike
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby blackbike » 19 Jul 2016, 2:42pm

Mick F wrote:Because (pardon the pun) it's overkill.
Far better to disable him and arrest him and punish him.

Giving him the pleasure of being martyred is sending out the wrong message.

Our coppers have tasers, why not use them instead of lethal force?


If someone was chopping up your family with an axe would you quickly shoot him from a distance if you had a gun or take extra time to approach him and to show him consideration while trying to subdue him?

landsurfer
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby landsurfer » 19 Jul 2016, 3:00pm

Mick F, im sure if it was your wife / daughter / grandchild he was hacking at with an axe you may have a different opinion. This isn't the wild west, the armed forces and the police only shoot to kill and are trained that way ...
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al_yrpal
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Re: Islamically motivated terrorism and freedom of movement

Postby al_yrpal » 19 Jul 2016, 3:09pm

The Nice attacker has psychiatric problems. The lad in Germany must have had some burning injustice eating away at him. If you think about it that sort of thing is the root of all these attacks, religion is just the excuse to justify it to the perpetrator. You have to be unbalanced and illogical to do these things. We use these feelings to create soldiers. Young men with grudges against racial prejudice and injustice are prime targets.

Borders are a key thing to inhibit terrorism. They can also be used to punish plotters and terrorist sympathisers by withdrawing passports especially in our island.

Al
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