** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[mjr]

Only the EFTA member countries can decide if the UK should be in the EFTA and the UK cannot request it whilst in the EU; the UK gave up it's membership in the EFTA when it joined the EU. I don't think tha tthe ECJ has the authority to rule on EFTA disputes, unless the member countries give it that authority.

No, it doesn't. There is a separate EFTA Court which rules on cases referred to it by the EFTA Surveillance Authority - so we'd be trading the ECJ and EC for two other supranational bodies, plus the EFTA Court's rules require it to follow the relevant case law of the ECJ and the General Court of the EU anyway. Joining EFTA would be basically rejoining the ECJ by proxy.

In other news, Theresa May was all over the news yesterday, saying that "Prime Minister Abe and I have agreed that as we exit the EU we will work quickly to establish a new economic partnership between Japan and the UK, based on the final terms of that [EU-Japan] agreement." So that's the big Brexit plan - to get the UK near-straight repeats of the EU trade deals we're throwing away?

But some sources reckon May's got a plan: a snap early election in 2019. Because you know, the UK government is democratic and doesn't keep just telling its citizens to vote again and again until they give the "correct" answer(!)

[Psamathe]

.....
But some sources reckon May's got a plan: a snap early election in 2019. Because you know, the UK government is democratic and doesn't keep just telling its citizens to vote again and again until they give the "correct" answer(!)

I can see it happening but I think a General Election will not provide "answers". We've seen it even with the EU referendum where the electorate is asked a simple single question "Leave the EU ?" they answer and the politicians then start telling us we voted to e.g. break away from the eCJ, to "end Freedom of Movement", to "not give and extra £350m a week to or NHS", etc. - basically putting their ideology into the referendum result.

Same would happen with a General Election; would it be about the Brexit deal or would it be about our collapsing NHS or would it be about ... and whoever won would start declaring we have voted for <insert their ideology here>.

I believe the only "answer" is for Davis & May to negotiate the best deal they can (including "Plan B, C, D options" like can we cancel the Article 50 notification, can we get more time to negotiate further, etc - what is available) and then put that deal and those options to the electorate.

A General Election would get really messy with each party campaigning on what it considers itself strongest on and you'd undoubtedly end up with e.g. Remain supporters voting Conservative because they don't want Labour's tax plans and Leave supporters voting Labour because they are concerned about the NHS, etc.

Ian

[AlaninWales]

Oh dear! This is going to complicate things http://www.suffolkgazette.com/news/landguard-fort/

[Vorpal]

Oh dear! This is going to complicate things http://www.suffolkgazette.com/news/landguard-fort/

I expect cycling conditions to improve soon in Felixstowe, then.

Things are looking up.

[Psamathe]

Interesting thing showing how the direction the UK is taking is affecting our "position" in the world, how the UK is regarded

Brexit Britain sidelined as Theresa May not invited to migration crisis summit
Merkel, Macron, and Rajoy were all invited to the Paris summit
...
Britain was sidelined from talks about the refugee crisis this week after Theresa May was excluded from a major summit hosted by French President Emmanuel Macron.

Amid growing concerns about Britain’s waning influence abroad, Downing Street confirmed Theresa May was not invited to the Paris summit attended by Mr Macron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, as well as Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy and Italian Prime Minister Paolo Gentiloni.

And undoubtedly as we close of our borders, keep the "foreigners" out, pursue our own selfish interests and decline to "work with others", so we will be sidelined more and more.

Ian

[mercalia]

so the EU negotiator intends to "educate" the British regarding the cost of leaving the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41140564

good luck mate

[reohn2]

so the EU negotiator intends to "educate" the British regarding the cost of leaving the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41140564

good luck mate

Just how much to you think the UK can 'hurt' the EU?
Then think how much the EU is capable of 'hurting' the UK.
If not perminently then over a period long enough to cause serious financial pain across the country as a whole,excepting of course the rich who can just up sticks to somewhere more favourable,or who can capitalise on the UK's downfall,the Reece Mog's of this world
I sometime wonder if ordinary people get the bigger picture at all...

[kwackers]

And undoubtedly as we close of our borders, keep the "foreigners" out, pursue our own selfish interests and decline to "work with others", so we will be sidelined more and more.

We were always going to become less important on the world stage. But in the EU we'd have been important as a prominent member and the EU would have been important in the world.
Outside of it we'll revert to what we really are, a bit player in world affairs. An island of 60 million consumers that the big players can dump their crap on.

Give it 10 or 20 years and most of the worlds population will assume the English language was invented by the yanks...

[mercalia]

so the EU negotiator intends to "educate" the British regarding the cost of leaving the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41140564

good luck mate

Just how much to you think the UK can 'hurt' the EU?
Then think how much the EU is capable of 'hurting' the UK.
If not perminently then over a period long enough to cause serious financial pain across the country as a whole,excepting of course the rich who can just up sticks to somewhere more favourable,or who can capitalise on the UK's downfall,the Reece Mog's of this world
I sometime wonder if ordinary people get the bigger picture at all...

well it will hurt the Germans for one? I think that article said we paid 14% of the EU budget - thats 14% the Germans will have to pick up for one? They will have to cut down on the Schnapps? I cant see the net beneficeries ( most of them ) giving up their part of the gravy train. None of this needed to happen had the EU shown some flexability and understood the UKs problems rather than stick their heads in the sands and poke their behinds our ways?

[roubaixtuesday]

None of this needed to happen had the EU shown some flexability and understood the UKs problems rather than stick their heads in the sands and poke their behinds our ways?

The blissful lack of self awareness in supporters of brexit is truly a thing of beauty.

[Psamathe]

so the EU negotiator intends to "educate" the British regarding the cost of leaving the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41140564

good luck mate :roll:

Just how much to you think the UK can 'hurt' the EU?
Then think how much the EU is capable of 'hurting' the UK.
If not perminently then over a period long enough to cause serious financial pain across the country as a whole,excepting of course the rich who can just up sticks to somewhere more favourable,or who can capitalise on the UK's downfall,the Reece Mog's of this world
I sometime wonder if ordinary people get the bigger picture at all... :?

well it will hurt the Germans for one? I think that article said we paid 14% of the EU budget - thats 14% the Germans will have to pick up for one? ....

I'm very unsure about your maths (or how you are calculating budgets). Because the UK receives money from the EU as well as paying so when the UK leaves and no longer receives money, so the EU budgets can be lower. So it's not a situation of one EU member state having to make additional contributions to "make-up" the UK's payments.

Ian

[Psamathe]

so the EU negotiator intends to "educate" the British regarding the cost of leaving the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41140564

good luck mate :roll:

Just how much to you think the UK can 'hurt' the EU?
Then think how much the EU is capable of 'hurting' the UK.
If not perminently then over a period long enough to cause serious financial pain across the country as a whole,excepting of course the rich who can just up sticks to somewhere more favourable,or who can capitalise on the UK's downfall,the Reece Mog's of this world
I sometime wonder if ordinary people get the bigger picture at all... :?

... I cant see the net beneficeries ( most of them ) giving up their part of the gravy train. None of this needed to happen had the EU shown some flexability and understood the UKs problems rather than stick their heads in the sands and poke their behinds our ways?

The "net beneficiaries" become interesting because whilst the UK's exit terms are agreed by Qualified Majority Voting, any subsequent Trade Deal requires unanimity - so every EU member state effectively has a veto. So when we anger them, it only takes one and we don't get any trade deal with the EU!

EU has been very clear about negotiation (in accordance with Article 50) and Davis agreed to that at the start of talks. But now the Conservative Party Conference draws closer and Davis has made no significant progress, so he has to start focusing on getting through the Conference rather than considering getting a deal and going to the Party Conference having agreed payment calculation, facing his Party Euro-sceptic Grandees having agreed to paying billions and he'd be in trouble/have a really hard time. So, Party before Country and we stay long way from any agreements.

Ian

[reohn2]

well it will hurt the Germans for one? I think that article said we paid 14% of the EU budget - thats 14% the Germans will have to pick up for one? They will have to cut down on the Schnapps? I cant see the net beneficeries ( most of them ) giving up their part of the gravy train. None of this needed to happen had the EU shown some flexability and understood the UKs problems rather than stick their heads in the sands and poke their behinds our ways?

TBH that's proper little england talk who doesn't get the whole idea of what the EU is about.

And you didn't answer my questions

[blackbike]

I think the EU's negotiators come across as arrogant and authoritarian.

They should remember they are talking to a country that is walking away from their organisation because its people don't want to remain members, not a country which is in receipt of EU funds and needs to keep Brussels sweet.

To me it is obvious that the EU's staff are simply out of their depth when dealing with people who don't exhibit servility and who don't show them the utmost reverence and respect.

The organisation should hire skilled negotiators who have experience of tough talks between equal partners. Their current people sound like pompous, poor schoolteachers who demand obedience and are appalled and shocked when they don't get it.

[reohn2]

.......? So, Party before Country and we stay long way from any agreements.

Ian

It was ever thus with the Tories!