** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[djnotts]

"I don't think anyone here believes we 'owe' the EU anything."

If contractual agreements mean anything then we DO. Many such contracts in the past at least had same force as "treaties" - top copies being held in the FO Library. At a lower level, although I rather assume that with ending of Regional bodies such as GOs and RDAs there is no longer any monitoring of such things, many e.g. ERDF projects had claw back periods of up to 25 years. I signed '00s of the things p/p various Secretaries of State and they were most definitely contracts.

[Psamathe]

On the issue of paying our dues to the EU,Mercalia appears to only operate on a "transmit" basis that says don't :roll:

well seems likeDavid Davis thinks this way also?

"The UK's Brexit negotiator David Davis has described the deal struck by Theresa May to move to the next phase of talks as a "statement of intent".

He said it was not "legally enforceable" and if the UK failed to get a trade deal with the EU then it would not pay its divorce bill."
.....

Are you really find it comforting that David Davis holds the same opinion as yourself?

Interestingly it is comments like Davis' that ensure the EU do not trust the UK. From the EU's perspective they negotiated and came to an agreement with the UK. Then within a few days the (supposed) UK chief negotiator comes out unilaterally adding a non-agreed condition. He is basically doing the "blackmail" you [mercalia] keep accusing the EU of doing. to within days threaten to renege on the agreement if they don't give us something els e(unrelated) that we want is terrible and will just ensure the EU trust us less.

If Davis wanted the agreement to be contain the "if we don't get a trade deal we don't pay you any money" then he should have put that in as part of the negotiation, not just added it after everything had been agreed.

Ian

[PDQ Mobile]

Are you really find it comforting that David Davis holds the same opinion as yourself?

Interestingly it is comments like Davis' that ensure the EU do not trust the UK. From the EU's perspective they negotiated and came to an agreement with the UK. Then within a few days the (supposed) UK chief negotiator comes out unilaterally adding a non-agreed condition. He is basically doing the "blackmail" you [mercalia] keep accusing the EU of doing. to within days threaten to renege on the agreement if they don't give us something els e(unrelated) that we want is terrible and will just ensure the EU trust us less.

If Davis wanted the agreement to be contain the "if we don't get a trade deal we don't pay you any money" then he should have put that in as part of the negotiation, not just added it after everything had been agreed.

Ian

I agree Ian.
When I do a deal with someone, shake hands, sign a contract etc, I honour that commitment.

I am ashamed about these double standards from
this Govt. They are basically untrustworthy in every aspect of what they do.
It is my perception that the EU negotiators have been much more straightforward and honest.

And then there's the DUP.

[Bonefishblues]

I think both sides have been guilty of negotiation, tbh. Once we had done what we'd done, it was an inevitability.

[Flinders]

Are you really find it comforting that David Davis holds the same opinion as yourself?

Interestingly it is comments like Davis' that ensure the EU do not trust the UK. From the EU's perspective they negotiated and came to an agreement with the UK. Then within a few days the (supposed) UK chief negotiator comes out unilaterally adding a non-agreed condition. He is basically doing the "blackmail" you [mercalia] keep accusing the EU of doing. to within days threaten to renege on the agreement if they don't give us something els e(unrelated) that we want is terrible and will just ensure the EU trust us less.

If Davis wanted the agreement to be contain the "if we don't get a trade deal we don't pay you any money" then he should have put that in as part of the negotiation, not just added it after everything had been agreed.

Ian

I agree Ian.
When I do a deal with someone, shake hands, sign a contract etc, I honour that commitment.

I am ashamed about these double standards from
this Govt. They are basically untrustworthy in every aspect of what they do.
It is my perception that the EU negociators have been much more straightforward and honest.

And then there's the DUP.

Couldn't agree more.
It must be frustrating for the EU to have to negotiate with a leader whose agreements can be binned at will at the request of a minor party, a government who will say an agreement is fine one minute and then say they will opt out of anything they don't like later (Gove) a chancellor who seems to have lost the plot altogether even according to MPs in his own party, a FS who says one thing one minute and then denies it the next, a PM with no clout with even her own party, and the likes of Davis who describes the same agreement completely differently every time he talks about it.

[Flinders]

When I do a deal with someone, shake hands, sign a contract etc, I honour that commitment.

(

Me too. But then maybe like me you are in business/self-employed, or maybe work in teaching or another public sector job? MPs make the laws for us, and make the rules for public sector workers like teachers and nurses and the police which should include themselves, then see to it that those laws and rules don't apply to them.

The rest of us are supposed to honor contracts, keep our hands off our colleagues at work, not lie, not watch porn at work, not get drunk at work, not take bribes....

[Psamathe]

On the issue of paying our dues to the EU,Mercalia appears to only operate on a "transmit" basis that says don't :roll:

well seems likeDavid Davis thinks this way also?

"The UK's Brexit negotiator David Davis has described the deal struck by Theresa May to move to the next phase of talks as a "statement of intent".

He said it was not "legally enforceable" and if the UK failed to get a trade deal with the EU then it would not pay its divorce bill."
.....

Interestingly Davis considers his/May's negotiated agreement with the EU as non-binding whilst considering an "advisory referendum" is binding!

Ian

[PDQ Mobile]

Interestingly Davis considers his/May's negotiated agreement with the EU as non-binding whilst considering an "advisory referendum" is binding!

Ian

It's a very valid point. IMV.
Double standards and hypocrisy rule.

[al_yrpal]

"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" We have made that clear from the start. A very sensible strategy in negotiations with a tricky fragmented multi agenda organisation like the EU. One disident amongst the 27 can wreak havoc. We have had a glimpse of that with Ireland the country we bailed out in the 2008 crash. It will be a miracle if a complete disengagement package is ever agreed. I am fully expecting we will have to walk away at some point.

Al

[Bonefishblues]

"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" We have made that clear from the start. A very sensible strategy in negotiations with a tricky fragmented multi agenda organisation like the EU. One disident amongst the 27 can wreak havoc. We have had a glimpse of that with Ireland the country we bailed out in the 2008 crash. It will be a miracle if a complete disengagement package is ever agreed. I am fully expecting we will have to walk away at some point.

Al

Completely agree. Don't agree with the position we're in, but we must make the very best we can of it.

[roubaixtuesday]

"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" We have made that clear from the start. A very sensible strategy in negotiations with a tricky fragmented multi agenda organisation like the EU...

One remarkable thing about the negotiations to date is how unified the EU have been.

The British cabinet, on the other hand are absolutely divided and have not even had a discussion yet on what they want from the negotiation.

Seriously, step the shoes of the EU and ask yourself what they see.

[PDQ Mobile]

"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" We have made that clear from the start. A very sensible strategy in negotiations with a tricky fragmented multi agenda organisation like the EU.

Al

It sounds only like the propaganda from the Brexiters.
But if anyone with a bit of a brain stopped and thought about it for more than half a second, then the soundbite nonsense that it is, would become apparent.

We have sadly a very complex set of negotiations ahead.
Some things will be agreed more easily than others, that seems an inescapable truth.
When one item is agreed then both sides can move on to another item.
Now when there are overlaps in areas of interest/policy getting agreement will even more complex.
But some things will be straightforward enough.

It will be important for the successful outcome of the whole process that once one area/detail of policy is agreed then that can be put onto the back burner with trust that it will be honoured.
Without that trust no sensible negotiation is possible.

[mercalia]

"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" We have made that clear from the start. A very sensible strategy in negotiations with a tricky fragmented multi agenda organisation like the EU.

Al

It sounds only like the propaganda from the Brexiters.
But if anyone with a bit of a brain stopped and thought about it for more than half a second, then the soundbite nonsense that it is, would become apparent.

We have sadly a very complex set of negotiations ahead.
Some things will be agreed more easily than others, that seems an inescapable truth.
When one item is agreed then both sides can move on to another item.
Now when there are overlaps in areas of interest/policy getting agreement will even more complex.
But some things will be straightforward enough.

It will be important for the successful outcome of the whole process that once one area/detail of policy is agreed then that can be put onto the back burner with trust that it will be honoured.
Without that trust no sensible negotiation is possible.

well chicanary is to be expected since the EU wanted to put the cart before the horse and settle the money,borders and citizens "first" They held a gun the the Uks head effectively this or nothing Right from the start the EU has NOT been honorable but scheming making sure it gets its kilogram of flesh

[PDQ Mobile]

I, as a UK citizen, am glad they put those things first. Money, borders,citizens.
Seems right and proper.

[al_yrpal]

"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" We have made that clear from the start. A very sensible strategy in negotiations with a tricky fragmented multi agenda organisation like the EU.

Al

It sounds only like the propaganda from the Brexiters.
But if anyone with a bit of a brain stopped and thought about it for more than half a second, then the soundbite nonsense that it is, would become apparent.

We have sadly a very complex set of negotiations ahead.
Some things will be agreed more easily than others, that seems an inescapable truth.
When one item is agreed then both sides can move on to another item.
Now when there are overlaps in areas of interest/policy getting agreement will even more complex.
But some things will be straightforward enough.

It will be important for the successful outcome of the whole process that once one area/detail of policy is agreed then that can be put onto the back burner with trust that it will be honoured.
Without that trust no sensible negotiation is possible.

Unlike the torrent unsubstatiated assertions and press speculation from piqued remainers! My brain is fine thankyou. Whatever you assert nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. Cant you post anything without slanging and insults. Grow up!

Al