** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 14 Sep 2018, 2:41pm

One thing I have trouble comprehending, is that Scotland seems to want independence. They already have a devolved parliament. I understand they want independence and to go it alone away from the remaining part of the UK.

However, they want to be in the EU.
How is this "independence"?
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Sep 2018, 2:45pm

al_yrpal wrote: ... Is that a crime then? ...


Not at all. But it suggests to me that you've been taken in.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 14 Sep 2018, 2:46pm

al_yrpal wrote:One has to remember that the establishment and most big business dont care a fig about the ordinary person and the inflated prices we pay because of the EU. Thats why they back the EU. Wise up, the EU are screwing all of us but never mind we are leaving shortly.

They don't care but presumably Dyson and the Weatherspoons guy do?

I'm interested in what things are going to get cheaper? Food? Clothes? How much cheaper? Where's it going to come from?
What about the stuff we sell? Are we going to have to sell that cheaper too? What effect does it have on jobs?

Sorry al_yrpal, but one thing I've noticed consistently in your replies, you stick to the black and white view.
I find that fairly synonymous with right wing thinking though, never really understood why though.
The world is complicated, international trade is complicated. Simply unilaterally removing tariffs is such a stupid idea it should be a joke, the scary thing is it isn't.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 14 Sep 2018, 2:50pm

The SNP? They just hate Westminster and many do actually hate the English Establishment and thats what its all about. After all they have long had many of their own institutions like the law etc and want to run their own affairs. Most of my pals up there believe that Scotland is much better off in the UK and regard the SNP as nutters. As for staying in the EU, the majority apparently voted Remain and the SNP ar using that as a Cudgel to bash Westminster which is a Scottish national sport.

Al
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 14 Sep 2018, 2:58pm

kwackers wrote:
Sorry al_yrpal, but one thing I've noticed consistently in your replies, you stick to the black and white view.


And one thing I have noticed about you is when you are losing an argument you start to get personal. Another is that you are consistently negative and continually run Britain down. There are too many people in this country like that unfortunately and I notice they all lack confidence and no doubt voted Remain

You are not sorry.

Al
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mikeonabike » 14 Sep 2018, 3:00pm

al_yrpal wrote:The SNP? They just hate Westminster and many do actually hate the English Establishment and thats what its all about. After all they have long had many of their own institutions like the law etc and want to run their own affairs. Most of my pals up there believe that Scotland is much better off in the UK and regard the SNP as nutters.
A bit like how the Brexiters simply hate the EU and are regarded as nutters by everyone else?!

Of course, to answer MickF's question, the UK is an independent nation right now. We have agreed with the other independent EU nations to standardise our laws in a number of areas, but we can leave at any time and no-one is sending in the Union army stop us. Whereas Scotland isnt even allowed to vote on independence unless Westminster approves.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 14 Sep 2018, 3:03pm

thirdcrank wrote:
al_yrpal wrote: ... Is that a crime then? ...


Not at all. But it suggests to me that you've been taken in.


I would be taken in if I hadnt considered things carefully which I have.

Al
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 14 Sep 2018, 3:07pm

al_yrpal wrote:
kwackers wrote:
Sorry al_yrpal, but one thing I've noticed consistently in your replies, you stick to the black and white view.


And one thing I have noticed about you is when you are losing an argument you start to get personal. Another is that you are consistently negative and continually run Britain down. There are too many people in this country like that unfortunately and I notice they all lack confidence and no doubt voted Remain

Personal? Not at all.
There simply isn't any meat in any of your replies - that's a fact.
Feel free to actually answer some questions, then I'll change my mind.

As for running Britain down, far from it. I want us to be great, not some has been which is what I feel some folk are trying to make us into.
Unfortunately I'm not yet retired and working in the technology sector I get to see first hand what a f'up brexit is - already.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 14 Sep 2018, 3:13pm

mikeonabike wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:The SNP? They just hate Westminster and many do actually hate the English Establishment and thats what its all about. After all they have long had many of their own institutions like the law etc and want to run their own affairs. Most of my pals up there believe that Scotland is much better off in the UK and regard the SNP as nutters.
A bit like how the Brexiters simply hate the EU and are regarded as nutters by everyone else?!

Of course, to answer MickF's question, the UK is an independent nation right now. We have agreed with the other independent EU nations to standardise our laws in a number of areas, but we can leave at any time and no-one is sending in the Union army stop us. Whereas Scotland isnt even allowed to vote on independence unless Westminster approves.


Did I dream that the SNP had a referendum then and independence was rejected? Any time the Scottish Parliament wants another vote is fine by me.

Those that regard the SNP as nutters are clearly the majority in Scotland whereas in England the supporters of brexit are the majority and any that regard them as nutters are in the minority.

Al
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mr bajokoses
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mr bajokoses » 14 Sep 2018, 3:17pm

Mick F wrote:One thing I have trouble comprehending, is that Scotland seems to want independence. They already have a devolved parliament. I understand they want independence and to go it alone away from the remaining part of the UK.

However, they want to be in the EU.
How is this "independence"?


A possible outcome of Brexit is a united Ireland, particularly if we end up with the 'backstop' position of an effective border down the Irish Sea. When Scotland sees how well Ireland (including Northern Ireland) does as part of the EU, and how badly the rest of the UK does as an isolated international pariah, it may well decide that it would be better off as part of the EU.

Or, I suppose, it could just be
al_yrpal wrote:The SNP? They just hate Westminster and many do actually hate the English Establishment and thats what its all about.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby [XAP]Bob » 14 Sep 2018, 3:18pm

Mick F wrote:One thing I have trouble comprehending, is that Scotland seems to want independence. They already have a devolved parliament. I understand they want independence and to go it alone away from the remaining part of the UK.

However, they want to be in the EU.
How is this "independence"?


Independence from Westminster and membership of the EU are not mutually exclusive.

I assume you don't want me deciding what you can drink, but you're happy to spend the evening with your wife...
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby ambodach » 14 Sep 2018, 3:30pm

Al-yrpal you are spouting rubbish based on too much Daily Mail and BBC. Yes there is a devolved Parliament in Scotland but Westminster is currently trying to remove most of it’s powers as it runs our public services to a much better standard than England. The SNP do not hate the English which is just sensationalist rubbish. Yes we dislike the Westminster Parliament and their constant condescension and obstruction. For example Scottish SNP MP’s cannot speak to ministers regarding concerns raised by their constituents, only Tories can speak to ministers. We are constantly told we are too poor to look after ourselves. Why is England so desperate to hold on to us if we must be subsidised? The truth is they need our money which is constantly filched. You can make any claims you like but without Scotland,England would currently be even more bankrupt than it is now.
To answer Mick’s point Europe is our biggest market so why split ourselves off. There are claims that England is our big market but that is skewed as our exports travel south through England and get classified as English due to the port of exit.
I could go on for hours but really cannot be bothered responding to condescending and ill informed rubbish.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 14 Sep 2018, 4:12pm

I am very happy to see Scotland democratically get what the majority want. Having met quite a few English haters I know they exist.

Al
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 14 Sep 2018, 4:18pm

Well, this thread is actually degenerating. That's quite a high bar!

Just for instance this content free little rant:

The SNP? They just hate Westminster and many do actually hate the English Establishment and thats what its all about. After all they have long had many of their own institutions like the law etc and want to run their own affairs. Most of my pals up there believe that Scotland is much better off in the UK and regard the SNP as nutters.


Could easily be repurposed:

The Brexiters? They just hate Europe and many do actually hate the EU and thats what its all about. After all they have long had many of their own institutions like the law etc and want to run their own affairs. Most of my pals up there believe that Britain is much better off in the EU and regard the Brexiters as nutters.


Neither adds anything.

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 14 Sep 2018, 4:20pm

I'm not ill-informed nor talking rubbish, so don't say that I am.

My comments regarding Scotland was question that I couldn't get my head round.
The Leave voters in the whole of UK want out. They want to leave the EU for a many and varied reasons and perhaps no particular reason.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's about 5M voters in Scotland. About the same voting size as the SE of England, perhaps less.
As far as I remember, the SE of England had a majority of Remain, same as Scotland.

If we'd had a regional vote, some parts of the UK would leave and some parts would remain. That obviously won't work, so all the votes were lumped together to form a unified decision. That decision was Leave.

After leaving, Scotland would have to get independence and then apply to join the EU as a separate country, and thereby lose true independence ............... the true independence that the remaining part of the UK would then have.

Whether all this a good idea or not, is besides the point.

Most posters on this thread are Remain voters and they can list all the good things the EU has done. Leave voters don't know the future, and neither do Remain voters. It's all speculation and a wager plus hot air and gas.
Mick F. Cornwall