** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[mjr]

...the governments position becomes untenable and a GE becomes inevitable. Probably the best thing that could happen for country. Clear the air of all this useless procrastination.

How does it remove procrastination?

It will automatically delay A50.

The opposition "policy" is for more procrastination.

The most likely outcome is arguably another hung parliament.

There are almost no circumstances imaginable where a GE will remove procrastination.

I agree with this. The two biggest parties are currently both delusional and claiming that they will deliver the impossible all-things-to-all-people Leave, even if it seems like Labour has more democrat members supporting a People's Vote. Thanks to our pathetic antique disproportionate voting system (no longer allowed for the more democratic EU elections), a GE will leave most of the country with a horrible choice between a wasted vote and a tactical vote to rearrange the deckchairs.

Is that why several Leavers are in favour of a GE - it's another way to run the clock down and send us into a disorderly exit?

[bovlomov]

The two biggest parties are currently both delusional and claiming that they will deliver the impossible all-things-to-all-people Leave, even if it seems like Labour has more democrat members supporting a People's Vote. Thanks to our pathetic antique disproportionate voting system (no longer allowed for the more democratic EU elections), a GE will leave most of the country with a horrible choice between a wasted vote and a tactical vote to rearrange the deckchairs.

I imagine all the parties will have selected their candidates by now - and the sitting MPs' candidacy will mostly be automatic.

I wonder whether we might have individual candidates campaigning on their own Brexit manifesto. Labour candidates, in particular, will have the choice between campaigning on Labour policy, and losing, or campaigning on a cancel Brexit manifesto, and having a chance of winning. Once the campaign is underway, what can the Party managers do to stop that, if the candidate has the support of the local group?

If that were to happen, we might have a parliament in which the two largest parties supported Brexit, but the MPs vote against it.

[mercalia]

An Historical Precedent: It's happened before? Mrs May, Corbyn and the rest of the so and so's? can we have them all sectioned?
[youtube]fEj1h7BC2b4[/youtube]

[661-Pete]

Beer will be a problem. Look up where the hops come from. Clue: most of them, especially the better ones, the answer is 'not the UK'.

Oh well - they can always drink budweiser can't they? The American variety I mean - not from the EU so it'll be alright. I understand it's made from rice husks and other rubbish swept up from the floor of the grain-stores - but who'd notice?

[661-Pete]

I've been saying we need a GE for ages. Get rid of the Tory government.
Coalition would be good.
PR would be good too.

But the last coalition we had, fixed things so that we don't ever get PR. I believe it was by way of a referendum of some sort, back in 2011....

[Mick F]

We didn't have a coalition really. It was a combination of Tories and Liberals joining forces. We still had the three party system.
What we need is a complete re-think and a re-modelling to form a real coalition.

As for the Alternative Vote referendum, correct me if I'm wrong, but real PR wasn't offered on the ballot.
I must look it up to see what was on offer to tick on the papers.

[roubaixtuesday]

We didn't have a coalition really. It was a combination of Tories and Liberals joining forces. We still had the three party system.
What we need is a complete re-think and a re-modelling to form a real coalition.

As for the Alternative Vote referendum, correct me if I'm wrong, but real PR wasn't offered on the ballot.
I must look it up to see what was on offer to tick on the papers.

It's an interesting contrast to the Brexit debacle.

For the AV referendum we were offered "current system or this specific alternative?"*

For Brexit we were offered "Current system or not?"

For Brexit, any single real alternative would have lost then, and would lose now.

Had the 2011 vote been "Current system or a new system?" would it have been the "will of the people" to enact whatever system the Tory party came up with later? I think not.

*At present, the UK uses the "first past the post" system to elect MPs to the House of Commons. Should the "alternative vote" system be used instead?

[661-Pete]

We didn't have a coalition really. It was a combination of Tories and Liberals joining forces. We still had the three party system.
What we need is a complete re-think and a re-modelling to form a real coalition.

Pardon my ignorance, but to paraphrase an old proverb:
"If it looks like a coalition, talks like a coalition, and quacks like a coalition ... stands to reason it probably is a coalition"
At least, that's what I and many others thought, back in 2010. But we may be wrong.

As for the Alternative Vote referendum, correct me if I'm wrong, but real PR wasn't offered on the ballot.
I must look it up to see what was on offer to tick on the papers.

AV may not be strictly the same as PR, but it's still a creditable system and a damn sight better than the FPTP we're stuck with. And PR doesn't always deliver the ideal result. Look at some countries where it is implemented.

Israel, for instance?

[Cyril Haearn]

The tory-liberal coalition was a big party and a small one, the big one wore the trousers of course
Germany has a three-party coalition (cdu csu sdp, two tory parties and one labour)
Several regional governments have coalitions of three parties

Plus Three for coalitions, balanced government

[Mick F]

"If it looks like a coalition, talks like a coalition, and quacks like a coalition ... stands to reason it probably is a coalition"
At least, that's what I and many others thought, back in 2010. But we may be wrong.

It didn't look like or talk like or quack like a coalition. It was a co-operation between two individual and separate parties. Not a coalition in the slightest IMHO.

No coalescing at all, and that's what we need now.

[thirdcrank]

It's hard to imagine what more they could have done, other than disbanding their existing political parties and forming a single new one.

[Cyril Haearn]

Well here at least is one adamant no-dealer bent on wrecking the economy.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... exit-leave
Never heard of the guy, but having clicked on the clickbait I see he's some sort of football /hooligan/ - oops excuse me, typo, I meant to write "football manager"..... (if there's a difference).

Maybe his "little englander" mindset thinks all this will bring back the glory days of English (or is it Welsh) footers, 1966 and all that, Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton, Hurst's header either crossing or not crossing the line (depending on your nationality), etc. etc.....

Some hope....

Right again, we (Wales) won in 1966
Maybe footballpeople should stick to football and politrickians should stick to..

[Cyril Haearn]

The afd a queer right-wing party is now talking about taking Germany out of the EU
I do (not) believe it

Probably the afd shall decline soon, like other fringe parties did

[661-Pete]

"If it looks like a coalition, talks like a coalition, and quacks like a coalition ... stands to reason it probably is a coalition"
At least, that's what I and many others thought, back in 2010. But we may be wrong.

It didn't look like or talk like or quack like a coalition. It was a co-operation between two individual and separate parties. Not a coalition in the slightest IMHO.

No coalescing at all, and that's what we need now.

Oh well, perhaps it didn't quack like a duck after all. More, "honk" like an Ugly Duckling, perhaps (what noise do Ugly Ducklings make?).

What you're seeming to advocate is a One Party State*. A perfectly admirable suggestion. What I believe operates in a few other countries. North Korea, for example?

*(though you'll no doubt deny it ).

[RickH]

It was a co-operation between two individual and separate parties. Not a coalition in the slightest IMHO.

I thought that a "co-operation between two individual and separate parties" is exactly what the definition of a coalition government is.