** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mjr »

merseymouth wrote:Hi all, The "United States of Europe" is very much the desire of France, Germany, Irish Republic et al, has been the agenda of De Gaulle, A. Hitler and De Valera and their sucessors!

A USE is not the policy of any of those countries and I'm pretty sure the political successors of Hitler are among the Leave campaigners in the UK, France and Germany!

merseymouth wrote:The fact that Blair is supportive is no surprise, he has always had a place on the Euro Gravy Train in his sights.

He completely messed that bed by invading Iraq and he knows it. I will eat a hat if he ever gets a role at the EU without it being somehow forced by a future UK Blairite leader. So don't you think his comments are probably fairly without personal interest, much more than many current MPs?

merseymouth wrote:Sure the implementation of majority voting for all matters would be an inprovement over the current veto stance, it would stop Spain getting bolshie over Gibraltar whilst occupying terriory in Africa in a similar way to what they accuse the UK being guilty?

I'm not convinced. I suspect there are a few issues where it's still worth needing unanimity. It would be better to find some peace over Gibraltar, as it would for Spain to make peace with Morocco over Ceuta and Melilla, Perejil Island, and the other small territories.

merseymouth wrote:We should all work together in Europe, but a Super State is not the way forward.

I agree - and walking away from the EU isn't the way to do it either.
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mercalia
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mercalia »

dont know about you but I am getting a bit tired of the circus going on in parliament -

"MPS are voting on @spelmanc 's amendment which would mean not leaving the EU without a withdrawal agreement under any circimstances, even though Caroline Spelman declined to move it herself, but @YvetteCooperMP as a co signatory has done so "

their brains are truly addled if they think such a decision makes any difference given they cannot agree anything (else)

so now its a matter of a managed no deal ( as if a no deal would ever be other than that?). They are playing semantics?

hehehe just been rejected by 210 votes ( Malthouse amendment)

am I the only one here who wishes a giant meteor would fall on the house of commons at this moment?

"The BBC's Europe Editor says that the EU is warning that the first amendment still does not take no-deal off the table.

She says that the EU states unless MPs rally round a plan, then no-deal will happen by default"

which sane person would want a career in politcs :roll:
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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mjr »

mercalia wrote:dont know about you but I am getting a bit tired of the circus going on in parliament

Nope. I never understand why people want the democracy sausages but get squeamish about the pigs being killed.

Channel 4 News is running reports with #BrexitMayhem in the corner. Something both Leave and Remain can agree on?
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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by 661-Pete »

mercalia wrote:am I the only one here who wishes a giant meteor would fall on the house of commons at this moment?
Probably not. But I am not one of those. And what would you have in its place? Absolute monarchy? Totalitarian dictatorship? Napoleon? Stalin? [No I won't invoke the H-word....]
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
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mercalia
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mercalia »

661-Pete wrote:
mercalia wrote:am I the only one here who wishes a giant meteor would fall on the house of commons at this moment?
Probably not. But I am not one of those. And what would you have in its place? Absolute monarchy? Totalitarian dictatorship? Napoleon? Stalin? [No I won't invoke the H-word....]


well in days of old in the Ancient Roman Republic a dictator ( without the modern connotations) who was a magistrate was installed ( temporarily) with sweeping powers, in times of trouble, as they understood the limits chat-chat. We have had some thing similar in the idea of Lord Protector? Since sanity is only coming from outside parliament would be just the job? The Queen as head of state could dissolve parliament and install one for a short time - wouldonly take 2 weeks to undo the damage these clowns have done?
Last edited by mercalia on 13 Mar 2019, 8:17pm, edited 1 time in total.
roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by roubaixtuesday »

am I the only one here who wishes a giant meteor would fall on the house of commons at this moment?


Ascribed to Winston Churchill:

democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by roubaixtuesday »

For all the shambolic mess that is parliament, the call for a strong leader to replace it all is far more dangerous.
geocycle
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by geocycle »

The last Parliamentary crisis of this proportion was caused by the Goodies giant cat....
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mercalia »

geocycle wrote:The last Parliamentary crisis of this proportion was caused by the Goodies giant cat....

this you mean?

[youtube]pQ78rhjthQY[/youtube]
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by geocycle »

That’s the one, could unite the nation!
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mjr »

mercalia wrote: We have had some thing similar in the idea of Lord Protector?

Last one ended badly, trying to appoint his son as successor (as dictators often seem to) who was removed within the year by the army and the previous parliament reinstated over 18 years after its election. I don't think it'll end much better if tried again.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by thirdcrank »

roubaixtuesday wrote:For all the shambolic mess that is parliament, the call for a strong leader to replace it all is far more dangerous.


Yes. All that's happened is that a form of direct democracy has been superimposed on the existing system of representative democracy. Brexit may mean Brexit but there are many varying opinions about both the desired form of Brexit and the means of achieving it. It's not necessary to go back centuries to find an example of Parliament largely uniting behind a single leader but the need for solidarity of purpose was pretty obvious during WWII. As it is at present, a one-person ruler would feel obliged to silence dissent.
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Cunobelin
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Cunobelin »

roubaixtuesday wrote:For all the shambolic mess that is parliament, the call for a strong leader to replace it all is far more dangerous.



This is a knee jerk reaction.

After Thatcher's Autocratic, John Major was the "ideal" as he did not have those traits.

THat also ended well
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661-Pete
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by 661-Pete »

Can we not face it? There exists absolutely no definition of "Brexit" as was presented to the electorate, and voted in by a slender majority in the 2016 referendum (nearly three years ago, note). A referendum which many regard as unconstitutional. Whatever the legality of it: that form of Leave process does not exist, and never did exist.

The whole trope of the "will of the people" is a farce and will ever be so.

On the other hand, Parliament, the representative power of the people, has absolute legislative power within the British Constitution. Thus far, it has not passed an Act to revoke A50. But it has power to do so. I hope we won't be waiting too long!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
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