** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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mercalia
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mercalia »

Bonefishblues wrote:I'd take no notice of Norway - they can't take care of their own vassals:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/17/euro ... index.html


comes from being a vassal state of the EU since there is a rule forbidding vassals to show any initiaitve but do as they are told
Bonefishblues
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Bonefishblues »

mercalia wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I'd take no notice of Norway - they can't take care of their own vassals:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/17/euro ... index.html


comes from being a vassal state of the EU since there is a rule forbidding vassals to show any initiaitve but do as they are told

In all seriousness, it was a pretty awful piece of seamanship - and then they try to secure it with string they found in the cupboard. :|
reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by reohn2 »

bovlomov wrote:
horizon wrote:The problem is Brexit, not May. Compromise on an in/out issue is almost impossible and the consequences of out weren't fully realised at the time of the referendum. The so-called "mess we are in" is a reflection of that and I simply don't believe anyone else would have done it much better.

Do you mean that any Brexit would be impossible? I disagree with that.
Do you mean that the Conservatives would never have elected an honest leader who put straight choices in front of Parliament and the population? I agree with that.

Even after the divisive campaign there were many, on both sides, in the mood for compromise. Almost single-handedly she turned the issue into a culture war. Where she didn't sow discord, she watered the seeds. The red lines were hers. The attitude to EU citizens was hers, following the same tactics she used as Home Secretary. It was her choice to seek support from the DUP and ERG instead of building support across the house.

Spot on.

I said last week, at the time of the leadership election I thought she was the best out of a terrible bunch. Now I'm not so sure. It's hard to imagine anyone being so divisive, so pig-headed, so lacking in empathy or plain humanity. Certainly, no one else would have so blatantly avoided every question put to her.

She is a millstone around the UK's neck with the determination to destroy it in favour of her disgusting party,we're heading to the cliff edge and she's the one and only one responsible for the driving,after Cameron along with his co-driver Osborne,set the vehicle in motion then jumped clear.Watching the show and possible subsequent crash are the likes of JRM,Farage,BoJo and Fox et al waiting to cash in.
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londoncommuter0000
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Re: Anyone else putting off touring decisions due to Br***t?

Post by londoncommuter0000 »

durhambiker wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
ANTONISH wrote: .....Not everybody who voted out expected an economic benefit - I think there was an acceptance that some fall in living standards may have to be accepted.....

So what's the upside for the common wo/man?
Please dont say taking back control,that's a fallacy disproven elsewhere on the forum.

Disproven? How...you mean disagreed with!!.


No, disproven. Or rather - proven to be abject lies. The UK has never 'lost control' either of our borders or of our country. The EU does not and never has 'ruled' Britain, and has never had any desire to do so. The UK does not require the approval of the EU to police our borders, and has never had to seek such approval.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
horizon wrote:I'm not sure I agree with all the invective against May. She managed to get a deal agreed with the EU which has the support of the bulk of her own MPs and actually appeals broadly to the stated aims of the party opposite. And, as she would say, delivers Brexit.

The problem is Brexit, not May. Compromise on an in/out issue is almost impossible and the consequences of out weren't fully realised at the time of the referendum. The so-called "mess we are in" is a reflection of that and I simply don't believe anyone else would have done it much better.

We might well be on different sides but your comments although the truth of the matter will be wasted on the more vicious youtube posting clowns in frocks that strong arm with only words even, of their wishes but wish they were military law, in most of the postings, its my way or no way, you've met the type.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
reohn2 wrote:
horizon wrote:I'm not sure I agree with all the invective against May. She managed to get a deal agreed with the EU which has the support of the bulk of her own MPs and actually appeals broadly to the stated aims of the party opposite. And, as she would say, delivers Brexit.

The problem is Brexit, not May. Compromise on an in/out issue is almost impossible and the consequences of out weren't fully realised at the time of the referendum. The so-called "mess we are in" is a reflection of that and I simply don't believe anyone else would have done it much better.

Oh really!
You don't think the past two and half years has been mismanaged on such a grand scale as to make The Muppet show look true to life drama!
This woman and her party since 2009 have lead this country to point of disaster,I know you're a moderate and thi king chap but c'mon this is a joke and the UK is the brunt of it.

See what I mean :roll:
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by reohn2 »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
horizon wrote:I'm not sure I agree with all the invective against May. She managed to get a deal agreed with the EU which has the support of the bulk of her own MPs and actually appeals broadly to the stated aims of the party opposite. And, as she would say, delivers Brexit.

The problem is Brexit, not May. Compromise on an in/out issue is almost impossible and the consequences of out weren't fully realised at the time of the referendum. The so-called "mess we are in" is a reflection of that and I simply don't believe anyone else would have done it much better.

We might well be on different sides but your comments although the truth of the matter will be wasted on the more vicious youtube posting clowns in frocks that strong arm with only words even, of their wishes but wish they were military law, in most of the postings, its my way or no way, you've met the type.

Yep certainly have,she's currently residing at 10 Downing street :?
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kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by kwackers »

youonlyvotetwice.jpg
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Vorpal »

mercalia wrote:
pete75 wrote:
mercalia wrote:
I wonder about that. The Norway deal has Norway as a vassal state following the EU dictates? The Labour party want a customs union as far as I understand it ie a union of equals ( not likely?)? Since May has dominated the arena there hasnt been much debate what these other alternatives really mean and whether mps could really stomach them in the light of day?

A ridiculous Brexiter word.
Norway has to abide by EEA rules but not those of the EU.


"Influence
Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein do not have formal access to the EU decision-making process, but are able to give input during the preparatory phase, when the Commission draws up proposals for new legislation that is to be incorporated into the EEA Agreement. "

"Same rules and conditions
A central principle of the EEA Agreement is homogeneity, which means that the same rules and conditions of competition apply to all economic operators within the EEA. To maintain homogeneity, the EEA Agreement is continuously updated and amended to ensure that the legislation of the EEA EFTA states is in line with EU Single Market legislation."

so who is wearing the trousers?

https://www.norway.no/en/missions/eu/areas-of-cooperation/the-eea-agreement/

still has to accept the the EU Single Market's four freedoms, as well as non-discrimination and equal rules of competition throughout the EEA area.


While I have to admit that when it comes to input to the EEC directives, Norway is disadvantaged. That is a point that I made a few hundred pages ago viewtopic.php?f=15&t=108977&p=1280704

But that said, Norway is hardly a vassal state. Most countries have rules about importing stuff that are along the lines of:
You can sell things here, but they have to meet our legal standards and be sold under our rules.

That holds true in every single country in the world. The only places where one country has significant influence over the rules in another, they normally have some hold over the other country (money, monopoly on goods, etc.). Otherwise, changes are made through negotiation. In the EU, they are made by elected representatives. The UK is about to lose the ability to help create that legislation.

Norway doesn't have to accept the EEC rules. They only have to accept the ones agreed by the EFTA, which govern the market http://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/smact_en

But don't expect the EU to do anything different just because of UK referendum results. Or because some sensationalising newspaper says so.
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pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by pete75 »

mercalia wrote:
pete75 wrote:
mercalia wrote:
I wonder about that. The Norway deal has Norway as a vassal state following the EU dictates? The Labour party want a customs union as far as I understand it ie a union of equals ( not likely?)? Since May has dominated the arena there hasnt been much debate what these other alternatives really mean and whether mps could really stomach them in the light of day?

A ridiculous Brexiter word.
Norway has to abide by EEA rules but not those of the EU.


"Influence
Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein do not have formal access to the EU decision-making process, but are able to give input during the preparatory phase, when the Commission draws up proposals for new legislation that is to be incorporated into the EEA Agreement. "

In other words they have influence on what is put into the legilsation.

"Same rules and conditions
A central principle of the EEA Agreement is homogeneity, which means that the same rules and conditions of competition apply to all economic operators within the EEA. To maintain homogeneity, the EEA Agreement is continuously updated and amended to ensure that the legislation of the EEA EFTA states is in line with EU Single Market legislation."

so who is wearing the trousers?

https://www.norway.no/en/missions/eu/areas-of-cooperation/the-eea-agreement/

still has to accept the the EU Single Market's four freedoms, as well as non-discrimination and equal rules of competition throughout the EEA area.


The whole idea of having a Norway style agreement is that we carry on with the four freedoms, single market etc.

http://efta4uk.eu/wp-content/uploads/20 ... Norway.pdf

To quote the EFTA website:
“The EEA Agreement does not cover the following EU policies:
Common Agriculture and Fisheries Policies;
Customs Union;
Common Trade Policy;
Common Foreign and Security Policy;
Justice and Home Affairs; or
Monetary Union (EMU).

"Since the EEA was born in 1992, Norway and Iceland have each
adopted around 3,000 EU legal acts (the figure is lower in
Liechtenstein, which joined later). But few of these rules were
important enough to need legislation in those countries: the 3,000
legislative acts have required fewer than 50 parliamentary statutes
in the Norway’s Storting and Iceland’s Althing. They deal with such
matters as the correct way to list ingredients on a ketchup bottle;
they do not tell the Norwegians and Icelanders what to tax, where
to fish, whom to employ or what surplus to run. And it is not true
that the EEA states have no say over these rules. There are formal
consultation mechanisms built into the EEA accord. Oddly, those
who point so excitedly to the 3,000 Euro-laws adopted by Norway
neglect to mention the 18,000 that Britain has had to accept over
the same period.”
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by pete75 »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,

We might well be on different sides but your comments although the truth of the matter will be wasted on the more vicious youtube posting clowns in frocks that strong arm with only words even, of their wishes but wish they were military law, in most of the postings, its my way or no way, you've met the type.


Bizarre :roll:
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pwa
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by pwa »

horizon wrote:I'm not sure I agree with all the invective against May. She managed to get a deal agreed with the EU which has the support of the bulk of her own MPs and actually appeals broadly to the stated aims of the party opposite. And, as she would say, delivers Brexit.

The problem is Brexit, not May. Compromise on an in/out issue is almost impossible and the consequences of out weren't fully realised at the time of the referendum. The so-called "mess we are in" is a reflection of that and I simply don't believe anyone else would have done it much better.

There is in fact a "compromise" to be had, but she has rejected it. It is staying in a customs union. She says that would be a betrayal of a nation that voted to leave, but with such a small winning margin she could have justified a watered down version of leave that kept us close to the EU for trade purposes. That would also have made the NI issue less of a hurdle.
mr bajokoses
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mr bajokoses »

Theresa May told Cabinet that Bercow's intervention had turned Brexit into 'Parliament versus the people'. Also warned that voters increasingly viewing Parliament as a 'laughing stock'


May's political judgement is truly terrible. It would be laughably so if this weren't quite an important issue. Does she not think she needs some of those parliamentarians behind her?

It's looking more and more like a war between the government and parliament, nothing to do with 'the people'.

Eventually parliament will win, as it gets its act together and moves inexorably towards revoking Article 50, having ruled out every other option.

The EU are asking for proposals for an extension, by Thursday. What can she possibly tell them?
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Bonefishblues »

mr bajokoses wrote:
Theresa May told Cabinet that Bercow's intervention had turned Brexit into 'Parliament versus the people'. Also warned that voters increasingly viewing Parliament as a 'laughing stock'


May's political judgement is truly terrible. It would be laughably so if this weren't quite an important issue. Does she not think she needs some of those parliamentarians behind her?

It's looking more and more like a war between the government and parliament, nothing to do with 'the people'.

Eventually parliament will win, as it gets its act together and moves inexorably towards revoking Article 50, having ruled out every other option.

The EU are asking for proposals for an extension, by Thursday. What can she possibly tell them?

Lunchtime news said 3 months as-is, with the option of a further 2 years was what she was going to ask for.
mr bajokoses
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mr bajokoses »

Bonefishblues wrote:
mr bajokoses wrote:
Theresa May told Cabinet that Bercow's intervention had turned Brexit into 'Parliament versus the people'. Also warned that voters increasingly viewing Parliament as a 'laughing stock'


May's political judgement is truly terrible. It would be laughably so if this weren't quite an important issue. Does she not think she needs some of those parliamentarians behind her?

It's looking more and more like a war between the government and parliament, nothing to do with 'the people'.

Eventually parliament will win, as it gets its act together and moves inexorably towards revoking Article 50, having ruled out every other option.

The EU are asking for proposals for an extension, by Thursday. What can she possibly tell them?

Lunchtime news said 3 months as-is, with the option of a further 2 years was what she was going to ask for.


She can ask but Donald Tusk and Leo Varadkar have already said:
They agreed that we must now see what proposals emerge from London in advance of the European Council meeting in Brussels on Thursday.
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