** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Theresa May's address
Well it won't be Downing Street much longer after her address tonight. I think she's always had a difficult hand to play but she blew it tonight. It was insulting and patronising and damaging to the institution of Parliament. I give her two weeks.
Well it won't be Downing Street much longer after her address tonight. I think she's always had a difficult hand to play but she blew it tonight. It was insulting and patronising and damaging to the institution of Parliament. I give her two weeks.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Following Theresa May's outburst, a petition to Revoke Article 50 is gaining new signatures at rates of up to 30,000/hour. Can it become the most-signed petition of this session and overtake the ban-ISIS-members-returning one's 582,000?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
horizon wrote:Theresa May's address
Well it won't be Downing Street much longer after her address tonight. I think she's always had a difficult hand to play but she blew it tonight. It was insulting and patronising and damaging to the institution of Parliament. I give her two weeks.
i dont think she had a difficult hand had she interpreted the referendum right ie a split country there fore the need to pursue a concenus policy. the problem is of her own making. Her stupidity is of the same order or worse than BoJo's. I an truly aghast that some one should get it so wrong
Re: Anyone else putting off touring decisions due to Br***t?
al_yrpal wrote:willem jongman wrote: Apart from our historical ties, just contemplate the current impact on your economy: the financial and manufacturing sectors are abandoning the UK ship. The same applies to academics (I know). We need each other ( I know - I am an economic historian: on your own you are doomed).
Willem, with the greatest respect you are wrong. Yes we do need each other but that should be as nation states not as a largely ignored country in a Franco German Empire. There is more to this than short term economic effects. I know you cant accept this and thats why you are wrong. Freed of the EU we will thrive.
Al
Doomed? Thrive? I doubt both of those. Whichever side you're on Brexit will clearly have an impact. At least initially, it will be negative. All but the most ardent pro-Brexit economists agree with this, and those don't, simply cannot back up their assertions.
Will the UK thrive eventually? It is possible, but not the way they've done things so far.
But freed of the EU? In exchange, we are giving up the rights of free movement, input to standards and directives that the UK will mostly have to follow, anyway, and influence over the future of the EU. What we get back is stuff that we already had.
There were some great opportunities in Brexit. Opportunities to set fishery and agricultural policy for the next generation. Opprotunities to demonstrate that the UK could do right the things that the EU have struggled with. Opportunities to underpin the research and development companies starting and growing in the UK. Despite my preference for remaining, I could see that.
All of those opportunities are all being lost in the black hole of internecine bickering and divisiveness that Brexit has become. Whatever happens, the UK will be years recovering from this, financially, socially, and politically.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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Re: Anyone else putting off touring decisions due to Br***t?
willem jongman wrote:That I find a sickening post. As a historian I could go on explaining that most of western European urban culture and society owes a lot to immigrants, but that is unlikely to persuade the supporters of brexit. But sick of fellow humans? Instead I treassure the memory of my grandfather being received with great hospitality in 1940 when his merchant ship was roped into the allied war effort and a friendly family in Newcastle became a home for him when his ship was not at sea sailing allied conveys. That is the England I admire, just like I admire Churchill's vision that the UK needed Europe for our joint peaceful future. Also, I will not forget that my town was liberated by Canadian and Polish soldiers who fought man to man street battles to clear out an SS regiment. Yes the Poles that you are apparently sick of, and of whom after the war many stayed behind in the UK because they could not go back to their Poland overrun by communism. I admire them just as much as I admire our British friends. And many made a great contribution to modern British culture and society.
Apart from our historical ties, just contemplate the current impact on your economy: the financial and manufacturing sectors are abandoning the UK ship. The same applies to academics (I know). We need each other ( I know - I am an economic historian: on your own you are doomed).
Well said. Considering my distaste for what I consider to be the over-the-top censorship of even mild 'swearing' on this forum, I do not often 'flag' posts for moderators, but had no choice in this context.
The UK has benefited vastly from immigration. Our public services, our cultural and historical legacy, families up and down the country... Immigrants contribute more to the UK purse than they take out, use the NHS and ancillary services lower than do the 'natives', and contrary to the odious nonsense spouted by the Daily Mail and its like, they commit crime at rates lower than do the so-called 'native Brits' (what does that even mean?).
Brexit makes me ashamed to be British.
But now, this is very off-topic so unless I'm addressed directly, I shall do my best not to add fuel to the fire in this topic.
Oh, and to get back on-topic: no, i'm not putting off touring decisions. But then, I have dual nationality anyway, so Brexit won't really affect me.
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Surly LHT | Genesis Flyer | Giant Defy Advanced Pro | CBoardman 29er Pro
London is a cesspit
Surly LHT | Genesis Flyer | Giant Defy Advanced Pro | CBoardman 29er Pro
London is a cesspit
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
mjr wrote:Following Theresa May's outburst, a petition to Revoke Article 50 is gaining new signatures at rates of up to 30,000/hour. Can it become the most-signed petition of this session and overtake the ban-ISIS-members-returning one's 582,000?
I've signed but I think it might be crashing - a good sign? It's over 600,000 now.
Update: yes, it's crashed.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
horizon wrote:mjr wrote:Following Theresa May's outburst, a petition to Revoke Article 50 is gaining new signatures at rates of up to 30,000/hour. Can it become the most-signed petition of this session and overtake the ban-ISIS-members-returning one's 582,000?
I've signed but I think it might be crashing - a good sign? It's over 600,000 now.
Update: yes, it's crashed.
Controlled by the government isn't it? They may be messing with it because they don't want people to sign. Wouldn't put it past the lying, cheating, dishonourable scum that call themselves Conservatives.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
It was running at about 600 per minute overnight (when people sleep) so it could be 2000 per minute now. I don't what the limit is.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Re: Anyone else putting off touring decisions due to Br***t?
Vorpal wrote:There were some great opportunities in Brexit. Opportunities to set fishery and agricultural policy for the next generation. Opprotunities to demonstrate that the UK could do right the things that the EU have struggled with. Opportunities to underpin the research and development companies starting and growing in the UK. Despite my preference for remaining, I could see that.
I disagree.
There were never opportunities. To think otherwise is to ignore how government works and has always worked.
Brexit was always about a bonfire of regulation in favour of the powerful and wealthy. Had I thought otherwise I'd have supported it.
For all its faults the EU was the nearest thing we have to a technocracy, although evidence based obviously doesn't trump gut feeling for the general populace.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
horizon wrote:Theresa May's address
Well it won't be Downing Street much longer after her address tonight. I think she's always had a difficult hand to play but she blew it tonight. It was insulting and patronising and damaging to the institution of Parliament. I give her two weeks.
Setting aside her policies and considering only her method, she has sought to portray herself as a second Iron Lady when she's quite the opposite. The nearest I can come up with is the Vicar of Bray.
What about the alternatives? Good old Bozzer is awaiting the call, as he sees it, much like Winnie in the late 1930's. I imagine he's got his siren suit ready, and he must spend a lot of time posing with his cigar and polishing it ready to lead the country alone against the growing menace from Europe. One point he misses is that Englishmen weren't alone in their castle/ sceptred isle etc., but had the support of the British Empire and Commonwealth, a lot of Europeans opposed to the Third Reich, the Soviet Union keeping the Wehrmacht distracted on the Eastern Front and eventually a lot of Americans. Hopefully, he'll be on the receiving end of the two-fingered gestures. And Churchill wasn't an Old Etonian.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
horizon wrote:It was running at about 600 per minute overnight (when people sleep) so it could be 2000 per minute now. I don't what the limit is.
Petitions is down for maintenance
We know about it and we're working on it.
Please try again later
Offically crashed but it was running I think at about 2 - 3000 per minute.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
horizon wrote:horizon wrote:It was running at about 600 per minute overnight (when people sleep) so it could be 2000 per minute now. I don't what the limit is.Petitions is down for maintenance
We know about it and we're working on it.
Please try again later
Offically crashed but it was running I think at about 2 - 3000 per minute.
How hard will they work at restoring it?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Vorpal wrote:horizon wrote:horizon wrote:It was running at about 600 per minute overnight (when people sleep) so it could be 2000 per minute now. I don't what the limit is.Petitions is down for maintenance
We know about it and we're working on it.
Please try again later
Offically crashed but it was running I think at about 2 - 3000 per minute.
How hard will they work at restoring it?
About as hard as David Davis worked on Brexit negotiations.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Re: Anyone else putting off touring decisions due to Br***t?
Vorpal wrote:al_yrpal wrote:willem jongman wrote: Apart from our historical ties, just contemplate the current impact on your economy: the financial and manufacturing sectors are abandoning the UK ship. The same applies to academics (I know). We need each other ( I know - I am an economic historian: on your own you are doomed).
Willem, with the greatest respect you are wrong. Yes we do need each other but that should be as nation states not as a largely ignored country in a Franco German Empire. There is more to this than short term economic effects. I know you cant accept this and thats why you are wrong. Freed of the EU we will thrive.
Al
Doomed? Thrive? I doubt both of those. Whichever side you're on Brexit will clearly have an impact. At least initially, it will be negative. All but the most ardent pro-Brexit economists agree with this, and those don't, simply cannot back up their assertions.
Will the UK thrive eventually? It is possible, but not the way they've done things so far.
But freed of the EU? In exchange, we are giving up the rights of free movement, input to standards and directives that the UK will mostly have to follow, anyway, and influence over the future of the EU. What we get back is stuff that we already had.
There were some great opportunities in Brexit. Opportunities to set fishery and agricultural policy for the next generation. Opprotunities to demonstrate that the UK could do right the things that the EU have struggled with. Opportunities to underpin the research and development companies starting and growing in the UK. Despite my preference for remaining, I could see that.
All of those opportunities are all being lost in the black hole of internecine bickering and divisiveness that Brexit has become. Whatever happens, the UK will be years recovering from this, financially, socially, and politically.
Spot on!
And as for the Franco German Empire... too much in favour of a 'bonfire of EU legislation' the country will be crippled as a result.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Hang on! I am all for thread drift, but thread titles drifting from the Touring section to the Tea Shop is just confusing.