** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[mjr]

So the problems of border control throughout Europe is just us being stupid?
We are always accused of not knowing our own history of migration, to quote Jim Royle, "My Ar*e"!
Invaders may have brought improvements to this country, but they have also brought death & destruction. The Vikings, Romans, Normans never politely rang the bell and asked to be admitted! Herr Schittelgruber wasn't waiting patiently to enter a great number of countries, can't think why the residents got alarmed?
But now I'll be accused of living in the dark ages, that by merely pointing out that my grasp of world history didn't just stop at the globe being painted Pink.
It is hard enough suffering the aging process without some folk wishing us already dead! MM

That looks like I was right. No attempt at a sensible discussion - just more inflammatory language, comparisons of invited workers to wartime invasions and a couple of huge chips on the shoulder!

[mjr]

Not recently, because I can't stand AN and Portillo doesn't seem to write much any more.

I do, I have, and I have found it balanced and insightful as I reported. I think my position is rather better informed than yours.

I suggest you take a look at last week's This Week on iPlayer and we can have a further discussion about whether fossil or not.

What part of "I can't stand AN" was hard to understand? You're clearly on a safe one there!

[PH]

And yet immigrants are invariably working people who pay taxes and raise more money than they cost. More immigrants, more money to spend. Less immigrants less money.

I don't believe that to be true, happy to be proved wrong if you have any details.
We keep hearing about the need for immigrant workers to do all the jobs people think locals won't do - seasonal farm work, care home staff, and the menial warehouse and factory jobs, these are some of the worst paid in the country. If you're earning minimum wage, you won't be paying much tax*, certainly nothing like the £12,000 per capita the UK government spend. This is an argument against low pay rather than immigration, but the two are linked, we keep hearing how immigration is good for the economy, when what's meant is a supply of cheap labour is good for certain sectors.

* £16,000 @ year = £1,700 Income tax & NI, plus VAT on about a third of the balance, maybe £2,500 in total.

[reohn2]

So the problems of border control throughout Europe is just us being stupid?
We are always accused of not knowing our own history of migration, to quote Jim Royle, "My Ar*e"!
Invaders may have brought improvements to this country, but they have also brought death & destruction. The Vikings, Romans, Normans never politely rang the bell and asked to be admitted! Herr Schittelgruber wasn't waiting patiently to enter a great number of countries, can't think why the residents got alarmed?
But now I'll be accused of living in the dark ages, that by merely pointing out that my grasp of world history didn't just stop at the globe being painted Pink.
It is hard enough suffering the aging process without some folk wishing us already dead! MM

You seem to be suffering an ageing process that leads you to think along the lines of your own imagination,which appears to be pretty dark I have to say.
Our problem isn't the EU it's Westminster,an antiquated club for millionaire public school boys!

[Debs]

....and Farage's favourite "breaking point".

That billboard now stands corrected

[Bonefishblues]

Not recently, because I can't stand AN and Portillo doesn't seem to write much any more.

I do, I have, and I have found it balanced and insightful as I reported. I think my position is rather better informed than yours.

I suggest you take a look at last week's This Week on iPlayer and we can have a further discussion about whether fossil or not.

What part of "I can't stand AN" was hard to understand? You're clearly on a safe one there!

Hold your nose

Seriously, there's also a rather delicious dismantling of a rather naive guy who was recently the toast of Davos, too. Good episode, although on balance I'd rather have Liz Kendall than Alan Johnson next to (the shockingly pink-clad) Portillo on the sofa.

[merseymouth]

Hello, Henceforth I must only think, say and do what you nice folk permit me to?
It would seem that I must post incredibly long posts citing every single incident in life to give a fully balanced presentation of how our lives can be disturbed by unfettered actions on every front!
The old lady lived two doors away from me, so I know that it affected all in the neighbourhood, not nice.
Why should I have to give up everything just because a few posters on this forum detest my having an opinion on any subject. I don't bask in the glory of my pure pedigree, very mongrel to the core, but why should we have to just roll over and follow your dictat?
If we cite historic cases we get slammed, if we just say the past is another world which we don't have to live in we get slated for lack of a historic perspective?
I'll leave you the last word. MM

[Bonefishblues]

Don't be surprised if an argument with holes is exposed and opposing pov are aired.

Because Forum.

[mercalia]

nearly 5m now thats amazing

[Mick F]

I would not like to see the UK damaged, and I am not one-track minded.
I would like us to leave the EU but still have a close relationship with them, as well as the rest of the world. We should have an open door to trade and commerce on a worldwide basis.

I do not dislike the EU, I just want us to leave. It would have been better if we'd never joined in the first place.

As for staying in, at least we'd have seat at the table so we could negotiate our way out.
A50 shouldn't have been invoked until after we'd negotiated. Seems cart before the horse to me.

Understand all of that yet it seems a given that you think Rees Mogg, Foxy and Farage are in some way preferable.
I think you are wrong about that.

I think you are wrong about that too.
Rees Mogg, Foxy and Farage are in no way preferable to the lot of them.
Get them all out and elect a new set of MPs asap.

[Bonefishblues]

nearly 5m now thats amazing

Yes, it's taken me and my overseas family all our time to falsify all those, you know

[Mick F]

I've filled in petitions and questionnaires multiple times in the past. Easy peasy to do.
Five million people?
It could be "only" a million filling it in five times each.

Why not?
No proof one way or another.
I'm just making the point that it could be done easily.

[Bonefishblues]

I've filled in petitions and questionnaires multiple times in the past. Easy peasy to do.
Five million people?
It could be "only" a million filling it in five times each.

Why not?
No proof one way or another.
I'm just making the point that it could be done easily.

Not on that scale. Really not on that scale, which says something.

...and yes of course there will be false ones, duplicates etc.

[mjr]

I've filled in petitions and questionnaires multiple times in the past. Easy peasy to do.
Five million people?
It could be "only" a million filling it in five times each.

Why not?
No proof one way or another.
I'm just making the point that it could be done easily.

Not on that scale. Really not on that scale, which says something.

...and yes of course there will be false ones, duplicates etc.

But most will get found and removed eventually and I bet it's a smaller % than all the kamikaze leavers hurriedly trying to boost their ailing rival petition.

[Mick F]

I don't know, but I reckon it would be easy for someone to have a computer program to fill the form in automatically thousands and thousands and thousand of times all with different names.

Again, not saying this is true. It's a credible supposition, and anyone taking notice of the petition must know that the numbers should be taken with a pinch of salt.