** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 1 Apr 2019, 2:51pm

Mick F wrote: I reckon probably not, but it'll take a while.


I think it's *already* a total disaster for the country, both internally through division and externally through reputation.

Oldjohnw
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 1 Apr 2019, 3:03pm

A little light relief, but meaningful nevertheless:



John

mercalia
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 1 Apr 2019, 3:13pm

mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:I am not castigating the EU for pursuing their self interest just stop pretending they are really suporting the GFA and Eire. The foolish May thought it was about the GFA I suspect then when the EU shot down the possibility of using tech to solve the border problem, it became clear it wasnt the GFA agreement at all but the common market.

How could anyone not shoot down the idea of using tech to solve the border problem? The tech doesn't exist or look likely to exist soon enough!

Does this mean I also don't support the GFA in your opinion? As I think I do.


well what I say is the only way I can make sense of Mays deal that involves a backstop that is clearly not in the spirit of the GFA ( in fact I mentioned previously that there might be legal challenges on that basis or even human rights law ) and clearly otherwises prejudges any trade talks in the EU's favour, crippling this countrys options

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 1 Apr 2019, 5:14pm

Oldjohnw wrote:A little light relief, but meaningful nevertheless:




Yes listened to it in the car this morning,many a true word and all that :lol: :lol: :lol:
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broadway
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby broadway » 1 Apr 2019, 5:29pm

mercalia wrote:
mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:I am not castigating the EU for pursuing their self interest just stop pretending they are really suporting the GFA and Eire. The foolish May thought it was about the GFA I suspect then when the EU shot down the possibility of using tech to solve the border problem, it became clear it wasnt the GFA agreement at all but the common market.

How could anyone not shoot down the idea of using tech to solve the border problem? The tech doesn't exist or look likely to exist soon enough!

Does this mean I also don't support the GFA in your opinion? As I think I do.


well what I say is the only way I can make sense of Mays deal that involves a backstop that is clearly not in the spirit of the GFA ( in fact I mentioned previously that there might be legal challenges on that basis or even human rights law ) and clearly otherwises prejudges any trade talks in the EU's favour, crippling this countrys options


That sums up the contradictions of Brexit.

And I believe the Human Rights issues are a red herring as it will be the government accepting the laws on your behalf,

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 1 Apr 2019, 5:34pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Mick F wrote: I reckon probably not, but it'll take a while.


I think it's *already* a total disaster for the country, both internally through division and externally through reputation.
No it's not.
Not totally, and not already.
Mick F. Cornwall

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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 1 Apr 2019, 5:36pm

Mick F wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
Mick F wrote: I reckon probably not, but it'll take a while.


I think it's *already* a total disaster for the country, both internally through division and externally through reputation.
No it's not.
Not totally, and not already.

Why not? Brexit's already estimated to be costing us over £500m a week. We could be giving that to the NHS instead.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 1 Apr 2019, 5:38pm

Mick F wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
Mick F wrote: I reckon probably not, but it'll take a while.


I think it's *already* a total disaster for the country, both internally through division and externally through reputation.
No it's not.
Not totally, and not already.

I disagree and we've not even started the real sorting out yet.
To(corruptly) paraphrase one prominent Tory of the past "This is not the end,it's not even the beginning of the end.But the beginning of the beginning" :?
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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 1 Apr 2019, 5:44pm

I'm taking issue with the "totally" and the "already".

It's not totally, because we've not noticed anything different here or with anyone we know.
It can't be already, because it's nothing's happened.

Life goes on as before.
Nothing has changed.
Mick F. Cornwall

thirdcrank
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby thirdcrank » 1 Apr 2019, 5:44pm

mercalia wrote:BBC -
On Monday, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said EU patience was running out

what an arrogant man you are Mr Juncker. You and the EU in pursuing your self interest and dogmas are the cause of the trouble viz the backstop, Take some responsibilty for it? Pretending to be on Eire's side supporting the GFA, but really just protecting your dogmas. You found a willing fool in Mrs May to serve your purposes but the rest of Parliament see through it. Hence the current problems. So dont get high and mighy with us!


You tell 'em. A jumped up Jonny Forreigner who doesn't realise that Waterloo is more than a railway station. These people don't realise that we Brits are not subject to the whims of Marie-Antoinette and we can both have our cake and eat it.

What could be more "arrogant" than not understanding that once we had activated Article 50, the EU and its negotiators would be begging us to name our terms.

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Cunobelin
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cunobelin » 1 Apr 2019, 6:02pm

mercalia wrote:
mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:I am not castigating the EU for pursuing their self interest just stop pretending they are really suporting the GFA and Eire. The foolish May thought it was about the GFA I suspect then when the EU shot down the possibility of using tech to solve the border problem, it became clear it wasnt the GFA agreement at all but the common market.

How could anyone not shoot down the idea of using tech to solve the border problem? The tech doesn't exist or look likely to exist soon enough!

Does this mean I also don't support the GFA in your opinion? As I think I do.


well what I say is the only way I can make sense of Mays deal that involves a backstop that is clearly not in the spirit of the GFA ( in fact I mentioned previously that there might be legal challenges on that basis or even human rights law ) and clearly otherwises prejudges any trade talks in the EU's favour, crippling this countrys options



As discussed previously one of the Brexit mantras, and the biggest reasons for voting was control of the borders... now they have it

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Cunobelin
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cunobelin » 1 Apr 2019, 6:03pm

mjr wrote:
Mick F wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
I think it's *already* a total disaster for the country, both internally through division and externally through reputation.
No it's not.
Not totally, and not already.

Why not? Brexit's already estimated to be costing us over £500m a week. We could be giving that to the NHS instead.



The NHS is spending much of it!

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Cunobelin
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cunobelin » 1 Apr 2019, 6:06pm

661-Pete wrote:
mercalia wrote:what an arrogant man you are Mr Junker. You and the EU in pursuing your self interest and dogmas are the cause of the trouble viz the backstop
You could at least (a) do Mr Juncker the favour of spelling his name right, (b) not accuse him of pursuing 'self interest' but instead, of acting in the best interests of the EU as a whole - which is a lot of people!, (c) refer to Ireland as Ireland unless you are writing in Irish (when the name should be Éire).

As to the backstop, of course this is an artifact generated by the whole Brex**it process. No-one's going to like it much. The best possible backstop is, No Brex**it - and of course Juncker knows that!



But that is the point... the expectation was that the EU would simply roll over and acceded to the UK's every wish and whim.

This acting in. the interests of the EU, the constituencies, and people who voted for them was totally unexpected and jolly well simply not cricket

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Cunobelin
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cunobelin » 1 Apr 2019, 6:11pm

mercalia wrote:
broadway wrote:
mercalia wrote:BBC -
On Monday, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said EU patience was running out

what an arrogant man you are Mr Junker. You and the EU in pursuing your self interest and dogmas are the cause of the trouble viz the backstop, Take some responsibilty for it? Pretending to be on Eire's side supporting the GFA, but really just protecting your dogmas. You found a willing fool in Mrs May to serve your purposes but the rest of Parliament see through it. Hence the current problems. So dont get high and mighy with us!


Hmmmm......

As opposed to the UK pursuing our self-interest?

Of course it would help if we knew what our self-interest was.


I am not castigating the EU for pursuing their self interest just stop pretending they are really suporting the GFA and Eire. The foolish May thought it was about the GFA I suspect then when the EU shot down the possibility of using tech to solve the border problem, it became clear it wasnt the GFA agreement at all but the common market.



Again how unreasonable.... turning down something that did not exist, would take many years (and much dosh) to design test and implement

... and ironically the EU has been clear from the start that it WAS about the EU and the border..... goods being sneaked into the UE via Eire across the border
Last edited by Cunobelin on 1 Apr 2019, 6:13pm, edited 1 time in total.

Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 1 Apr 2019, 6:12pm

Mick F wrote:I'm taking issue with the "totally" and the "already".

It's not totally, because we've not noticed anything different here or with anyone we know.
It can't be already, because it's nothing's happened.

Life goes on as before.
Nothing has changed.

Different groups are impacted to different extents. Retirees are generally least affected. That said I'm noticed nasty price increases, but like you I'm in that group who will be least affected. The impact on e.g. business confidence, investment, etc. is somewhat more significant. That austerity was due to have "ended" and hasn't impacts those in greatest need. That the government is not getting on with its job of governing the UK (because it is totally pre-occupied with Brexit) allows things like massive increases in child poverty to slip through largely unnoticed (in Westminster anyway).

So just because you have not noticed anything does not mean nothing is happening.

Ian