al_yrpal wrote: ... Perhaps it is time to go back to the EU to point out why we voted Leave and suggest what the EU should do to reform itself as the price they must pay to encourage us to stay? ...
The list of reasons we voted to leave would make good reading. Dreaming of the good old days, don't like straight bananas, and a lot more. Perhaps writing out the list would help some to think a little more clearly.
No, you're absolutely not alone. Throughout human history, there has always been a desire for dictatorship/fascism to solve all of our problems at a stroke with a strong leader.
It has never ended well.
Read your Machiavelli.
well Cromwell ended quite well in the long run with the end of absolute monarchy, the supremacy of Parliament and the so called Glorious Revolution and by the way the reformation of the army and navy that was respected in Europe
No, you're absolutely not alone. Throughout human history, there has always been a desire for dictatorship/fascism to solve all of our problems at a stroke with a strong leader.
It has never ended well.
Read your Machiavelli.
well Cromwell ended quite well in the long run with the end of absolute monarchy, the supremacy of Parliament and the so called Glorious Revolution and by the way the reformation of the army and navy that was respected in Europe
Well, feel free to espouse fascism and dictatorship as it went so well for Cromwell. Be sure to get the Irish onside, as they seem to be front and centre of our issues right now. Shouldn't be too hard for you.
roubaixtuesday wrote: No, you're absolutely not alone. Throughout human history, there has always been a desire for dictatorship/fascism to solve all of our problems at a stroke with a strong leader.
It has never ended well.
Read your Machiavelli.
well Cromwell ended quite well in the long run with the end of absolute monarchy, the supremacy of Parliament and the so called Glorious Revolution and by the way the reformation of the army and navy that was respected in Europe
Well, feel free to espouse fascism and dictatorship as it went so well for Cromwell. Be sure to get the Irish onside, as they seem to be front and centre of our issues right now. Shouldn't be too hard for you.
you are of course ignoring the historical context - we also dont burn witches anymore or hang draw and quarter traitors
al_yrpal wrote: ... Perhaps it is time to go back to the EU to point out why we voted Leave and suggest what the EU should do to reform itself as the price they must pay to encourage us to stay? ...
The list of reasons we voted to leave would make good reading. Dreaming of the good old days, don't like straight bananas, and a lot more. Perhaps writing out the list would help some to think a little more clearly.
Which is something I've consistently asked of leavers on this thread to no avail.
al_yrpal wrote:All that said I cannot accept that Bulgarians who live in Bulgaria should have any say whatsoever in how our country is run however pragmatic that may seem
Perhaps you could outline in detail just how you believe that works
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
There are a couple of things he has written that I do not agree with, but I think it is a largely balanced persepctive.
He also says:
“I readily accept that the European Union is a dysfunctional body beset by all manner of problems. But the lesson of the last two years is that we are much better off working inside the EU ... for reform and not as a hostile neighbour.”
Which is fine - no-one is saying that the EU is perfect. I think his turnaround is highly significant. I always had a high opinion of Peter Oborne and this reinforces it.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
horizon wrote: Which is fine - no-one is saying that the iEU is perfect. I think his turnaround is highly significant. I always had a high opinion of Peter Oborne and this reinforces it.
And which is what a lot of people on here have been saying since the whole debacle started, ie. we are better negociating around the table than from another room. Some of whom are not as "clever" as Mr Oborne.
That the EU is perfect is certainly not a claim I have ever seen.
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 8 Apr 2019, 10:36am, edited 2 times in total.
mercalia wrote: ... you are of course ignoring the historical context - we also dont burn witches anymore or hang draw and quarter traitors
We don't do all sorts but that doesn't mean these things are impossible. It's been widely reported in the last couple of days that a dictator has decreed death by stoning for behaviour which is no longer a crime in this country.
al_yrpal wrote: All that said I cannot accept that Bulgarians who live in Bulgaria should have any say whatsoever in how our country is run however pragmatic that may seem.
Al
But we need to have say in how the Bulgarians run their country so it's a quid pro quo. We're all in it together - the world is no longer a foreign place, it's our planet and we need to work together to put it right.
Perhaps it is time to go back to the EU to point out why we voted Leave and suggest what the EU should do to reform itself as the price they must pay to encourage us to stay?
That's actually a good idea.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Interesting....... as if in some macabre striptease some of the most fervent leavers posting in this thread...piece by piece... publicly divest themselves of any belief in the trappings of democracy and appear to show themselves as they really are.
georgew wrote:Interesting....... as if in some macabre striptease some of the most fervent leavers posting in this thread...piece by piece... publicly divest themselves of any belief in the trappings of democracy and appear to show themselves as they really are.
It's disturbing.......but not really surprising.
It's all about self interest. They support it because they believe it'll be better for them, no other reason. Once they realise otherwise it's too late.
Which reminds me of the internet meme: "I never thought leopards would eat MY face!" sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
georgew wrote:Interesting....... as if in some macabre striptease some of the most fervent leavers posting in this thread...piece by piece... publicly divest themselves of any belief in the trappings of democracy and appear to show themselves as they really are.
It's disturbing.......but not really surprising.
It's all about self interest. They support it because they believe it'll be better for them, no other reason. Once they realise otherwise it's too late.
Which reminds me of the internet meme: "I never thought leopards would eat MY face!" sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
Nail,head,on! The gulability of the electorate at the hands of clever shysters and snake oil saleswo/men knows no bounds,it was ever thus.....
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
