** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 10 Apr 2019, 3:21pm

mjr wrote:Sorry but no, most people can't completely choose what information they have about you. Even if you don't have an account with them, they use tricks like...

Yes, true. And that's why regulations need to be tightened. It doesn't follow though, that because Google is tracking us, we're all happy about it. Neither does use of social media invalidate concerns about state data collection.

Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 10 Apr 2019, 3:26pm

mjr wrote:
syklist wrote:Mostly it is data without context that we are talking about in the Folkeregister. [...] I don't know if the Folkeregister can see the bank accounts that are linked to your P-number for example.

Maybe not exactly, but they'd be able to see at least which banks you've applied for accounts at by seeing which banks requested authentication of you. That would make it much easier to identify and seize your assets if they ever decided to. It's very difficult to prove that they don't already collect and store such information somewhere.

Psamathe wrote:The thing about Facebook/Google/Instagram/etc. is that you can chose what information they have about you. Facebook/Instagram/WhatsApp have no information about me - my choice, even though I do have WhatsApp and have used over the last 4 months (I've not yet got round to deleting it).

Sorry but no, most people can't completely choose what information they have about you. Even if you don't have an account with them, they use tricks like beacons, browser fingerprinting and SSL session resumption to track you. Eventually they'll build a pretty good profile of you, even if they don't know your name and address and so on - but one of your connections (even from a site like this, which downloading and running code from Google if you let it) probably has your details in a device which runs some app with permission to read its contacts book. Of course, several steps of that are arguably illegal (you didn't give your connection permission to share your personal data with Facebook or Google, for example), but good luck proving who's to blame for giving them your details.

I have a lot less of an issue with people like Facebook tracking some weird number ID that means nothing to them. They might be able to collect some marketing info e.g. people that like cheesecake also play 5-a-side football, but lack of my name/address/personally identifiable info keeps me anonymous enough for my paranoia (plus there are some weirdo's I throw in to screw-up their analysis e.g. my WhatsApp number is currently a Peruvian mobile number and the Peruvian GSM network got very upset as they had no record of me on their system ...).

I agree with what you say but I also think privacy is a question on degree (from publishing all details to everybody to not using the internet). I'm moderately happy with where I sit on that scale; I use a lot of "burner" e-mail addresses, VPNs, aliases, etc. so whilst they might see me an "an entty" they have no idea about who I really am.

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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 10 Apr 2019, 3:33pm

Psamathe wrote:[...] e.g. people that like cheesecake also play 5-a-side football [...]

:lol: Please tell me that you know the slang meaning of "cheesecake" and that was intentional! :lol:
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syklist
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby syklist » 10 Apr 2019, 3:39pm

Psamathe wrote:I have a lot less of an issue with people like Facebook tracking some weird number ID that means nothing to them. They might be able to collect some marketing info e.g. people that like cheesecake also play 5-a-side football, but lack of my name/address/personally identifiable info keeps me anonymous enough for my paranoia (plus there are some weirdo's I throw in to screw-up their analysis e.g. my WhatsApp number is currently a Peruvian mobile number and the Peruvian GSM network got very upset as they had no record of me on their system ...).


Each to his own, eh!

However, if you really do believe what you just wrote, it might be instructive for you to ask Facebook to send you a hard copy of everything they hold on you, like Max Schrems did.
So long and thanks for all the fish...

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syklist
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby syklist » 10 Apr 2019, 3:43pm

bovlomov wrote:
mjr wrote:Sorry but no, most people can't completely choose what information they have about you. Even if you don't have an account with them, they use tricks like...

Yes, true. And that's why regulations need to be tightened. It doesn't follow though, that because Google is tracking us, we're all happy about it. Neither does use of social media invalidate concerns about state data collection.


Given the US social networks' involvement in PRISM, their data collection is effectively "state data collection".
So long and thanks for all the fish...

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 10 Apr 2019, 3:46pm

syklist wrote:
Psamathe wrote:I have a lot less of an issue with people like Facebook tracking some weird number ID that means nothing to them. They might be able to collect some marketing info e.g. people that like cheesecake also play 5-a-side football, but lack of my name/address/personally identifiable info keeps me anonymous enough for my paranoia (plus there are some weirdo's I throw in to screw-up their analysis e.g. my WhatsApp number is currently a Peruvian mobile number and the Peruvian GSM network got very upset as they had no record of me on their system ...).


Each to his own, eh!

However, if you really do believe what you just wrote, it might be instructive for you to ask Facebook to send you a hard copy of everything they hold on you, like Max Schrems did.

Then I'd have to identify myself and at the moment they have no idea who I am (I don't have any accounts with them).

Ian

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 10 Apr 2019, 4:36pm

syklist wrote:
bovlomov wrote:
mjr wrote:Sorry but no, most people can't completely choose what information they have about you. Even if you don't have an account with them, they use tricks like...

Yes, true. And that's why regulations need to be tightened. It doesn't follow though, that because Google is tracking us, we're all happy about it. Neither does use of social media invalidate concerns about state data collection.


Given the US social networks' involvement in PRISM, their data collection is effectively "state data collection".

Yes. That's another scandal.

"We already break into your house when you're out and rifle through your correspondence, so you shouldn't mind giving us the key to the front door and the password to your computer".

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby thirdcrank » 10 Apr 2019, 4:37pm

mercalia wrote: ... and with it make it more easy to detect illegal migrants


Without a really intrusive ID system, I don't see how that would work. The truly nasty people you want to catch would have several sets of ID each. Think if the ingenuity with which Allied POWs are reported to have forged false papers. I know everything's electronic now, but that just needs a different set of skills, as demonstrated by the people we know have hacked this that and the other, and those that we don't know about.

Technically, it must be possible to analyse and record the DNA of evey child at birth. Then, perhaps by microchip and tattoo, everybody could be labelled to link bodies with the database. It would reveal some interesting family trees.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 10 Apr 2019, 4:43pm

News Flash
Economists using the latest Tachyon predictive technology have taken a picture of Brexit
blackhole.JPG

Cameron who was asked to comment from his gypsy caravan said " well no one believed my theory, but this picture proves what Brexit is, that nothing not even light can escape it, it sucks every thing in and nothing good comes out"

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 10 Apr 2019, 5:14pm

thirdcrank wrote:
mercalia wrote: ... and with it make it more easy to detect illegal migrants


Without a really intrusive ID system, I don't see how that would work.

I suppose it would work along the lines of May's 'hostile environment'. The onus would be on landlords, employers and others to enforce the law, and they would be the ones expected to check credentials. These unpaid agents of the state, living in constant fear of prosecution, overzealously apply the law, and even imagine laws that don't exist, leading to perfectly law-abiding folk being denied jobs, housing and healthcare.

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Cugel
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cugel » 10 Apr 2019, 5:15pm

A typical Meades monologue, this one concerning the Brexit effect. He is a wicked writer discovering and exposing various cultural rots and cankers.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/201 ... han-meades

“Mutton go to the abattoir mute and hopeless,” wrote the French writer Octave Mirbeau in Combats Politiques. “But at least they don’t vote for which butcher will slaughter them and which bourgeois will eat them. More stupid than a beast, more mutton-like than mutton, the voter chooses his butcher, he chooses his bourgeois. And he has fought in revolutions to achieve this.”

The referendum was democracy by the mob. All mobs descend from the one that voted to set free Barabbas.


Cugel

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 10 Apr 2019, 6:31pm

Cugel wrote:
The referendum was democracy by the mob. All mobs descend from the one that voted to set free Barabbas.[/i]

Cugel


Which of course had to happen. The mob would have been wrong to do anything else. The basis of Christianity is that Christ died to take our sins upon himself and then rose from the dead.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Last edited by pete75 on 10 Apr 2019, 10:15pm, edited 1 time in total.

broadway
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby broadway » 10 Apr 2019, 8:51pm

bovlomov wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:
mercalia wrote: ... and with it make it more easy to detect illegal migrants


Without a really intrusive ID system, I don't see how that would work.

I suppose it would work along the lines of May's 'hostile environment'. The onus would be on landlords, employers and others to enforce the law, and they would be the ones expected to check credentials. These unpaid agents of the state, living in constant fear of prosecution, overzealously apply the law, and even imagine laws that don't exist, leading to perfectly law-abiding folk being denied jobs, housing and healthcare.


This is already the case

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -landlords

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 10 Apr 2019, 10:18pm

Cugel wrote:A

The referendum was democracy by the mob. All mobs descend from the one that voted to set free Barabbas.


Cugel


That's symptomatic of the mess we're in now. When democracy doesn't go the way you would like it to, making disparaging remarks about those who voted differently to you does nothing to improve your lot. No matter how you dress it up, or how sage the philosopher that utters it, it's still puerile behaviour.

Worst of all, if you're a fence sitter/couldn't care less/don't mind either way (delete to taste) like me then you get both barrels of childish banality, one from each side of the 'debate'.
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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 10 Apr 2019, 10:55pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:Worst of all, if you're a fence sitter/couldn't care less/don't mind either way (delete to taste) like me then you get both barrels of childish banality, one from each side of the 'debate'.

A genuine question - so don't read it in a sarcastic voice.

How do you manage to be neutral about Brexit? I'm amazed and, possibly, impressed.