** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[Cunobelin]

We should aim for about a dozen options. That way we can have another undecisive poll and we can faff about for three more years and get nowhere.

And so ad infinitum.

But Brexit will still mean Brexit. Wot the people voted for.

Wot some people may(or may not) have voted for..... what we have now is so totally different that claiming people voted for it is simply a fantasy

[Cugel]

We should aim for about a dozen options. That way we can have another undecisive poll and we can faff about for three more years and get nowhere.

And so ad infinitum.

But Brexit will still mean Brexit. Wot the people voted for.

Wot some people may(or may not) have voted for..... what we have now is so totally different that claiming people voted for it is simply a fantasy

The whole world is run on fantasy as the whole world has been swarmed by humans with our mad notions. We're in the throws of murdering ourselves, along with many other species yet can't seem to stop because our notions tell us to keep on truckin'. Brexit is just a teeny symptom of a general malaise - a little itch to scratch on the great big canker of we the human blight of the global ecology.

Many believe "It'll be reet", to quote a well-known Yorkie expression of wishful thunk that generally does go THUNK as reality pushes it off the cliff of forlorn hope. There's Progress, of course, which will save us all with technological cleverness. Alas, this same technological cleverness is fantasy made real, including the mad fantasties of crazed demagogues and businessmen, who employ evermore powerful technology to wreak vast harms here, there and everywhere.

Who will push what doom-button; and when? Perhaps they will not get 'round to it before Gaia chucks us all on the rubbish heap of history labelled "Yet another failed evolutionary glitch".

Cugel, probably just fed up with the hay fever.

[pete75]

Every brexit problem is rooted in a lack of honesty, including the second referendum campaign.

Perhaps the second referendum should comprise the three options:

• REMAIN
• LEAVE
• MAYBE

Would that be 'honest'?

Don't need maybe that's what we've got now

[661-Pete]

Every brexit problem is rooted in a lack of honesty, including the second referendum campaign.

Perhaps the second referendum should comprise the three options:

• REMAIN
• LEAVE
• MAYBE

Would that be 'honest'?

Don't need maybe that's what we've got now

My point. If "MAYBE" were to win the 2nd ref., that would be a mandate for Maybot or her successor to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and and on and on and on and on and and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.....
....trying to reach an impossible deal. Geddit?

[al_yrpal]

Yes, mismanagement played a part, in that case it was crooked owners remote from us in London not local management. Although our shop steward an avowed Communist that caused lots of problems through sheer bloodymindidness. If you lived through the strife of the 70s you couldnt deny that it was rabble rousing troublemakers causing much of industrys problem. Thankfully they are curbed now.

Al

[reohn2]

When you bring a workforce with you and include it in the management process and decision making,include it in profits and work with that workforce,those people feel part of the company,they feel wanted and worth something.
What I witnessed in industry in the 70's and 80's was a class system,which still operates today,and management that thought the workforce should do as they're told and not question their betters.
It's no secret that the collapse of a lot of UK industry was a two part problem,but when you're treated as a second class citizen by management ,or as 'dead wood' when things get rough,you react to such treatment in a negative way.

Someone up thread posted that a good UK workforce is as good as any other on the planet with a German or Japanese management,I can fully understand that statement.

[mercalia]

Ukraine has put a comedian in power so BoJo can still hope?

[Cyril Haearn]

so Ukraine has put a comedian in power so BoJo can still hope?

He is an entertainer and actor, like Dame Emma
Does she belong to the upper class or the alternatives or both or what?

[reohn2]

so Ukraine has put a comedian in power......

At least he isn't another Trump!

...... so BoJo can still hope

He is!

[kwackers]

so Ukraine has put a comedian in power so BoJo can still hope?

Despite their best efforts most politicians seem to make poor comedians. Perhaps it'll work well the other way.

[Mick F]

so Ukraine has put a comedian in power ............

We've got a comedienne in power already.

[al_yrpal]

Dame Edna might do a better job...Possums

Al

[reohn2]

Dame Edna might do a better job...Possums

Al

Than Mother Theresa I agree!

[syklist]

If you lived through the strife of the 70s you couldnt deny that it was rabble rousing troublemakers causing much of industrys problem. Thankfully they are curbed now.

Yes I am sure that all those people who are on zero hours contracts today are eternally grateful for that.

[syklist]

When you bring a workforce with you and include it in the management process and decision making,include it in profits and work with that workforce,those people feel part of the company,they feel wanted and worth something.
What I witnessed in industry in the 70's and 80's was a class system,which still operates today,and management that thought the workforce should do as they're told and not question their betters.
It's no secret that the collapse of a lot of UK industry was a two part problem,but when you're treated as a second class citizen by management ,or as 'dead wood' when things get rough,you react to such treatment in a negative way.

Someone up thread posted that a good UK workforce is as good as any other on the planet with a German or Japanese management,I can fully understand that statement.

Yes that was me.

I seem to remember reading that it was British trade unionists that came up with the idea to set up a Works Councils system in post-war Germany. Or is that something I have imagined?

Whoever it was the Works council system is seen as one of the reasons for West Germany's and then the unified Germany's economic success.

"As with co-determination, there are three main views about why works councils primarily exist: to reduce workplace conflict by improving and systematising communication channels; to increase bargaining power of workers at the expense of owners by means of legislation; and to correct market failures by means of public policy. "

Source ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Works_council

Which seems to fit in with your observations of the effect of the class system on industrial relations in the UK.

Personally I think that properly implemented works councils are a much better solution to avoiding industrial strife than this method:

Yes, mismanagement played a part, in that case it was crooked owners remote from us in London not local management. Although our shop steward an avowed Communist that caused lots of problems through sheer bloodymindidness. If you lived through the strife of the 70s you couldnt deny that it was rabble rousing troublemakers causing much of industrys problem. Thankfully they are curbed now.