** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 29 May 2019, 2:57pm

Paulatic wrote:You’ve also to bear in mind most of the contributors to this forum receive their info through England filtered sources. Al gets his information from friends in Scotland but I’d guess that because they are friends they’ll have similar views to Al which are thankfully in a minority up here. .


Yes, thats true. One, a Scot, owns a chain of Scottish Hotels and because of the antics of the SNP has moved his HQ to England from Glasgow. Another is a former acolyte of Tony Benn so you can easily imagine his politics. Another, an old cockney friend is a retired BA pilot based at Glasgow. And then there are a dozen or so average Scots, some of them SNP. They all have similar views.."Sturgeon shut up and tackle the obvious problems". My friends and acquaintances in Scotland are perfectly entitled to hold their own views which apparently are held by the majority of Scots as proven by the opinion polls.
What you seem to forget is that Scotland isnt alone in rejecting Brexit, there are various areas elsewhere in the UK that felt that way too.You have your own Scottish News which we dont see in England because its irrelavent to us. If you want seperate News thats the way it is.

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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 29 May 2019, 3:10pm

al_yrpal wrote:You have your own Scottish News which we dont see in England because its irrelavent to us.

Freesat channels 108 and 109 in England. The English-language one has news at 9pm like a channel ought ("The Nine").
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 29 May 2019, 4:07pm

Mick F wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
Mick F wrote:This is where many folk are wrong, not in the facts, but the funding made no difference to much of the vote IMHO.

Why bother having election campaign funding laws? If you prefer, we can just let anyone and any corporation spend as much on advertising as they want. Then the UK can go the way of the USA, with election campaigns bought & sold by coporate interests.
You can spend what you can spend, but if Party A spent all they were allowed and Party B spent nothing, the people who were dyed in the wool B supporters, wouldn't make any difference to them. The would still vote B.

Spending dosh is not the only way to "capture" swing voters, but it helps.

Many many many of us Leave voters would have voted Leave no matter what was spent - or not.

In that case why did the brexit camp spend so much money on their campaign?
Could it possibly be they felt they needed to convince an element of the populous to vote out?
And why did they need to tell so many outright lies?
Could it be that if they stuck to the truth those people wouldn't have been convinced* to vote out?


*some would use the term "hoodwinked"

EDIT:- let's not forget the rsferendum was won by a 2% majority
Last edited by reohn2 on 29 May 2019, 5:08pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 29 May 2019, 4:24pm

reohn2 wrote:
Mick F wrote:You can spend what you can spend, but if Party A spent all they were allowed and Party B spent nothing, the people who were dyed in the wool B supporters, wouldn't make any difference to them. The would still vote B.

Spending dosh is not the only way to "capture" swing voters, but it helps.

Many many many of us Leave voters would have voted Leave no matter what was spent - or not.

In that case why did the brexit camp spend so much money on their campaign?
Could it possibly be they felt they needed to convince an element of the populous to vote out?
And why did they need to tell so many outright lies?
Could it be that if they stuck to the truth those people wouldn't have been convinced* to vote out?


*some would use the term "hoodwinked"

Speaking of outright lies, Boris is going on trial in court for repeating the £350m a week lie after he'd been told off.
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 29 May 2019, 4:26pm

mjr wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Mick F wrote:You can spend what you can spend, but if Party A spent all they were allowed and Party B spent nothing, the people who were dyed in the wool B supporters, wouldn't make any difference to them. The would still vote B.

Spending dosh is not the only way to "capture" swing voters, but it helps.

Many many many of us Leave voters would have voted Leave no matter what was spent - or not.

In that case why did the brexit camp spend so much money on their campaign?
Could it possibly be they felt they needed to convince an element of the populous to vote out?
And why did they need to tell so many outright lies?
Could it be that if they stuck to the truth those people wouldn't have been convinced* to vote out?


*some would use the term "hoodwinked"

Speaking of outright lies, Boris is going on trial in court for repeating the £350m a week lie after he'd been told off.

Yep,saw that,we can hope he gets jail time if found guilty,but I'm not holding my breath :?
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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 29 May 2019, 4:42pm

Evem if he's found guilty and sentenced to death by firing squad not a single voter will change their mind. Only Remainers care about it, and they never followed Boris'advice anyway.
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Mike Sales
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mike Sales » 29 May 2019, 4:53pm

Trump has discovered this: if you tell your supporters what they want to hear they do not care how often you lie.

A well known line..

“People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.”

thirdcrank
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby thirdcrank » 29 May 2019, 5:05pm

A lie told often enough becomes the truth


Is a phrase attributed to Lenin. (Perhaps he'd be seen in some quarters on here as a trot. :lol: )

PDQ Mobile
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 29 May 2019, 5:07pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:Evem if he's found guilty and sentenced to death by firing squad not a single voter will change their mind. Only Remainers care about it, and they never followed Boris'advice anyway.

Not sure about that.
I think it was quite an important factor for disinterested an ill informed people.

I know a few folk who thought it was just a case of taking said money and putting it into the NHS.
Kwacker's granny too!

If it was demonstrably a deliberate lie, which may well be the case, then Johnson should be held to account.
The wheels of justice etc.

And the spectacle of a budding PM up before the "beak" seems to be just, at last!

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 29 May 2019, 5:09pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
Lance Dopestrong wrote:Evem if he's found guilty and sentenced to death by firing squad not a single voter will change their mind. Only Remainers care about it, and they never followed Boris'advice anyway.

Not sure about that.
I think it was quite an important factor for disinterested an ill informed people.

I know a few folk who thought it was just a case of taking said money and putting it into the NHS.
Kwacker's granny too!

If it was demonstrably a deliberate lie, which may well be the case, then Johnson should be held to account.
The wheels of justice etc.

And the spectacle of a budding PM up before the "beak" seems to be just, at last!

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roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 29 May 2019, 5:12pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:Evem if he's found guilty and sentenced to death by firing squad not a single voter will change their mind. Only Remainers care about it, and they never followed Boris'advice anyway.


I wonder why you think only remainers care about the truth. Personally I think leave voters are every bit as morally upright as remain voters.

Regardless of any impact on voters, government ministers should face consequences for lying.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mjr » 29 May 2019, 5:42pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Lance Dopestrong wrote:Evem if he's found guilty and sentenced to death by firing squad not a single voter will change their mind. Only Remainers care about it, and they never followed Boris'advice anyway.


I wonder why you think only remainers care about the truth. Personally I think leave voters are every bit as morally upright as remain voters.

Yes, most leave voters are basically decent people, unlike some leave campaigners who just keep lying again and again and again. That Daniel Hannan MEP (Con) annoyed me on Sunday night, lying that it was a good-natured campaign with Remain and Leave street stall campaigners being polite to each other - he should have come to Downham Market or Norwich to see us have "traitor" (and worse) shouted in our faces and be screamed at to [rude word removed] off to the EU if I like it so much. :(

There's also all the dodgy arguments the liars use, some of which are summarised in the slightly-sweary series posted at https://twitter.com/LennieMerrick1/stat ... 4855990273

roubaixtuesday wrote:Regardless of any impact on voters, government ministers should face consequences for lying.

Yes, the consequences need to be severe enough that ministers aren't willing to risk deliberately misleading the public.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby windmiller » 29 May 2019, 5:43pm

The only thing that needs moderation is moderation itself. It is the so the called wholesome hovis moderates that have got us in this mess in the first place. Moderation has been the new extremism for decades now. Freedom of speech and democracy have never been so weak since 1653. Politicians are to be prosecuted for telling the odd porky pie, (isn't that in their job description). Imagine that we only have honest politicians, I doubt even the most liberal bubble brain can do that. It all stinks of bio engineered morality.
Last edited by windmiller on 29 May 2019, 5:49pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mike Sales
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mike Sales » 29 May 2019, 5:47pm

mjr wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:Regardless of any impact on voters, government ministers should face consequences for lying.

Yes, the consequences need to be severe enough that ministers aren't willing to risk deliberately misleading the public.


It mystifies me that the consequences of breaking the rules on electoral spending are so pitifully small. They certainly don't deter cheating.

thirdcrank
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby thirdcrank » 29 May 2019, 6:11pm

Whatever the rights and wrongs, I cannot believe that the case against Boris Johnson which is reported to allege misconduct in public office will even get as far as his being required to enter a plea; I predict it will be dismissed or "thrown out" in mediaspeak at the pre-trial stage and he will be vindicated and able to preen as the victim of an attempt to misuse the legal system.

(If it did get as far as a conviction, they'd have to start an extensive programme of prison building.)