** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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merseymouth
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby merseymouth » 9 Jun 2019, 11:04am

Hello again, Well I never labelled anyone over their voting choice, nor do I denigrate them for it. But sadly, predictably the tags get attached sad!
One thing hasn't been pointed out about our electoral system is that since the start of the process it has always been accepted on all sides that the portion of the electorate who didn't or couldn't be bothered to vote accepted the outcome as going with the flow.
So just accept the fact that the non voters support the verdict of those who did vote.
That is how we all accept poor turn outs, they can't be bothered to care! MM

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Cugel
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cugel » 9 Jun 2019, 11:08am

merseymouth wrote:Hi all, Amazing how anyone who wants to leave the E.U. is classed as either Extreme Right Wing or worse! Can't really why it should happen?
With the extreme reluctance on the part of the E.U. to consider change & improvement leave is the only sensible choice.
I see the E.U. in the same way that I view the ruddy great cruise ships in Venice, a behemoth crushing sensible discussion. Lots of rules & regulations that some members comply with, whilst others just carry on with their own agenda, not really playing by the rules is it old bean?
I await the usual name calling. IGICB MM


M, old fellow, consider this concept: unintended consequences.

In case you didn't know, these are the 99 awful results of large revolutionary acts that are in addition to the one intended consequence. The unintended ones generally overwhelm the intended one. Often, the cunning revolutionary ruse doesn't even result in the intended consequence appearing at all. In fact, it often results in the opposite occuring! Like going to the dentist,who fails to pull the nasty tooth but cracks it instead, giving you blood poisoning as a traffic warden has your car towed away.

You could read Edmund Burke or Michael Oakeshott for details. I recently saw a surprising newspap piece condeming the rabid revolutionary aspects of the so-called Conservative and Unionist Prty that quoted both those emblems of conservatism (Burke and Oakeshott) in a telling analysis of why that Party is anything but conservative and seemingly fully-intent on smashing the Union.

Cugel

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 9 Jun 2019, 11:09am

reohn2 wrote:Do you think leaving will sort anything out?
I don't.
From what I've seen of your opinion you don't even know why you want to leave as you've no vision or idea what Brexit will offer and I suspect a lot of people are the same.
Let's swap this about.

Do you think staying will sort anything out?
I don't.

You don't know why you want to Remain ........... other than more of the same and the status quo plus ever closer union.
The country is in decline, and has been for more than a decade.
Mick F. Cornwall

kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 9 Jun 2019, 11:14am

merseymouth wrote:So just accept the fact that the non voters support the verdict of those who did vote.

On the basis of?

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 9 Jun 2019, 11:15am

Cugel wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
Mick F wrote:........When we leave the EU, things will be different. Not better or worse, just different, and I'm looking forward to it. Sooner the better please.

Mick it gives me no pleasure typing this but you've posted some silly comments on this thread but that takes the biscuit.If you can't now see what difference is coming you're as blind as a bat!
It's plainly ridiculous to say that things are only going to be different with what's happened to industry in the past 12months alone and we haven't left yet!
What will it take to convince you that the UK is going down the pan?


Sometimes I try to imagine a post-Brexit Blighty that sees various changes that I would approve of. As a natural conservative (litte "c" not the nasty political party variety) I'm suspicious of large and ill-considered changes - to anything. However, this conservatism admits of the radical when radical changes seem appropriate.

I'd like to see our country move away from rabid consumerism with all it's planet-degrading activities and all of it's junk goods, services and culture. If Brexit makes us nationally poor, one scenario might be a rise of The Greens ... or a rise of less profligate and wasteful behaviours. Perhaps our poverty might tend to bring us more together again, in adversity? I know ... little chance; but one can imagine.

It seems more likely that we'll become a junk country in lots of other ways already becoming apparent via Austerity. We'll be like a 3rd rate USA - perhaps even the 51st State. We're already halfway there.

Cugel

My vision of a post Brexit UK is one where poverty will increase,the political extreme right initially will rise,until sense prevails,but meanwhile the talent and industrious younger generation will hpget out if they can.The country continue the slide into obscurity and the none thinking rightwing voting public will blame anyone and everyone but themselves for the demise.
There will then follow a period of dire reflection after that who knows,but in all of this the rich will get richer and more of the population will get poorer.
How far the moderate majority will allow themselves to be pushed before reacting is anyone's guess but either way it won't be a pretty outcome and the UK will be at the mercy of the sharks now circling.
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merseymouth
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby merseymouth » 9 Jun 2019, 11:16am

Hi Cugel, So what you are saying is that we have to accept 99 awful Laws in the hope that the 100th one is good?
We have to suffer tons of E.U. crepe because you feel content that one nugget can be found amongst the tonnes of iron pyrites?
Hope over experience! IGICB MM

kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 9 Jun 2019, 11:17am

merseymouth wrote:Hi Cugel, So what you are saying is that we have to accept 99 awful Laws in the hope that the 100th one is good?
We have to suffer tons of E.U. crepe because you feel content that one nugget can be found amongst the tonnes of iron pyrites?
Hope over experience! IGICB MM

Can you give us 99 awful laws? I'd be interested in such a list.

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Cugel
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cugel » 9 Jun 2019, 11:20am

merseymouth wrote:Hello again, Well I never labelled anyone over their voting choice, nor do I denigrate them for it. But sadly, predictably the tags get attached sad!
One thing hasn't been pointed out about our electoral system is that since the start of the process it has always been accepted on all sides that the portion of the electorate who didn't or couldn't be bothered to vote accepted the outcome as going with the flow.
So just accept the fact that the non voters support the verdict of those who did vote.
That is how we all accept poor turn outs, they can't be bothered to care! MM


No, non-voters tend to support the status quo. They see no need for the vote.

Well, that's wot I fink! No one can know unless them non-voters vote.

Not that it has anything to do with representative democracy. What next, a vote to bring back hanging, drawing and quartering? I have a feeling that would be a policy to the liking of Farago, the ERG and various other mobsters of The Victorian aspect. Will it be all right with you if 52% of the voters (34% of the franchised) vote for it? What if they also vote to classify all scallies as eugenically unfit for anything except the HDQing!? The Sun campaign, endorsed by The Hate Mail, will surely carry that proposition amongst the mob!

Do excuse my hyperbole. But I feel it to be the fashion around here and I like to fit in.

Cugel

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 9 Jun 2019, 11:21am

Too many people have a jaundiced view of what will happen after Brexit swallowing Project Fear whole. The prophets of doom have been proven wrong again and again and are now a busted flush. The £ has sunk a bit, but the positive on that is a gain in competitiveness for exporters and higher import costs making imports less attractive. Generally we Brexit supporters have an optimistic view of the future and believe the dust will settle on an independent nation better off financially in control of our own destiny.

There are challenges to world trade particularly in China and Germany the workshops of the world and concern for the environment which opens up many opportunities for us.

Al
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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 9 Jun 2019, 11:23am

kwackers wrote:
merseymouth wrote:So just accept the fact that the non voters support the verdict of those who did vote.

On the basis of?
On the basis of that's how it works.

If someone doesn't vote, it is classed as abstaining.

What would be the result of any vote if there was a 100% turnout?
We would never know, but until that time comes, non-voters are abstainers.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Cugel
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cugel » 9 Jun 2019, 11:23am

Mick F wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Do you think leaving will sort anything out?
I don't.
From what I've seen of your opinion you don't even know why you want to leave as you've no vision or idea what Brexit will offer and I suspect a lot of people are the same.
Let's swap this about.

Do you think staying will sort anything out?
I don't.

You don't know why you want to Remain ........... other than more of the same and the status quo plus ever closer union.
The country is in decline, and has been for more than a decade.


I would argue that any decline in Blighty has been despite the best efforts of the EU to stem it. The decline is so obviously due to neoliberalism. (Go on, look it up).

On the other hand, neoliberalism has a firm grip of the EU!. Not as firm as it's grip on the Tories and New Labour, mind.

Cugel.

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Cugel
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cugel » 9 Jun 2019, 11:26am

merseymouth wrote:Hi Cugel, So what you are saying is that we have to accept 99 awful Laws in the hope that the 100th one is good?
We have to suffer tons of E.U. crepe because you feel content that one nugget can be found amongst the tonnes of iron pyrites?
Hope over experience! IGICB MM


Naughty pretend-misread of my fine posting, yer honour! HDQ that scally! :-)

Cugel

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 9 Jun 2019, 11:30am

Mick F wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Do you think leaving will sort anything out?
I don't.
From what I've seen of your opinion you don't even know why you want to leave as you've no vision or idea what Brexit will offer and I suspect a lot of people are the same.
Let's swap this about.

Do you think staying will sort anything out?
I don't.

I know what staying is like I've lived in the EU for the past 45years,it's been mostly positive

You don't know why you want to Remain ...........

Yes I do.
See mine an other remainers posts for detailed reasoning of why we want to remain in the EU!

other than more of the same and the status quo plus ever closer union

More of the same isn't bad for the UK ,the present status quo can be improved on but only with a decent UK government.
Closer union doesn't mean a USE and we can opt out of that or stop it entirely with a veto vote in the EU parliament.

The country is in decline, and has been for more than a decade.

That isn't the fault of the EU it's the fault of a p*** poor idiotic rightwing selfseeking government who's only interest is for the rich to get richer at the expense of the poor!
By voting for the likes of Miss Homophobe-Widdecombe you're making things WORSE!
To claim otherwise is brexit delusion of the most blind kind!
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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 9 Jun 2019, 11:31am

Cugel wrote:I would argue that any decline in Blighty has been despite the best efforts of the EU to stem it. The decline is so obviously due to neoliberalism. (Go on, look it up).

On the other hand, neoliberalism has a firm grip of the EU!. Not as firm as it's grip on the Tories and New Labour, mind.
I cannot disagree with you on this.

Blame Thatcher and her ilk.
Mick F. Cornwall

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 9 Jun 2019, 11:32am

al_yrpal wrote:Too many people have a jaundiced view of what will happen after Brexit swallowing Project Fear whole. The prophets of doom have been proven wrong again and again and are now a busted flush. The £ has sunk a bit, but the positive on that is a gain in competitiveness for exporters and higher import costs making imports less attractive. Generally we Brexit supporters have an optimistic view of the future and believe the dust will settle on an independent nation better off financially in control of our own destiny.

There are challenges to world trade particularly in China and Germany the workshops of the world and concern for the environment which opens up many opportunities for us.

Al

And that's from the keyboard of someone who believes Germany wants to rule the world :roll:
Your opinion isn't worth a light and your theories have been taken apart piecemeal time and time again.
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