** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[661-Pete]

The Guardian is festooned with anti Uk bias surely you are aware of that? It is also anti USA (even prior to Trump) and Israel in outlook.

I've never seen any evidence of anti UK bias and I've read the Graun for years. Anti-USA? Anti-Trump certainly, but how can one believe in common human decency and not be anti-Trump? Israel, likewise. Most informed people are opposed to Israeli policy - after all I am, and I am a Jew. Whether Israel should even exist, or be obliterated - that's a much more dangerous argument and the Guardian, understandably, recognises both views.

Perhaps if the poster were to read more of the Guardian's articles, he'd appreciate that they sometimes print views which are decidedly right-of-centre and pro-brexit. Not often, but they do.

[Oldjohnw]

Hi all, Accept one very simple fact, despite the E.U. insisting that the "Free Market" is essential, with freedom of movement, it exists as a Protectionist entity!
They demand everyone follows their isolationist rules, but demand that others give then free access to the open markets. Do as we say, not do as we do!
As France declines to accept back people who have crossed the English Channel to enter the UK illegally, it demands that Italy takes back people who cross their common border?
So one thing is clear, the UK is already failing it's citizens, so totally open borders will make matters far worse. That is not a racist comment, it is merely accepting reality.
Switzerland and the Irish Republic are mere pawns in the E.U. strategy, sacrificial. Hard ball tactics will put the Republics economy into meltdown, not me saying it, but the Irish Government. IGICB MM

Could you deal with one thing at a time, MM, please?

It would be useful if you would address the earlier request about Switzerland before throwing around further unevidenced charges.

Incidentally, the U.K. does not have and never has had, whether in or out of the EU, totally open borders.

[mercalia]

Apparently Johnson has now said Brexit 31st October "Do or die".

Brexit: Now a death cult. Seems about right.

will be interesting to seee how he gets out of that one? maybe he will claim the report missed the word "trying" or it was a double impersonator who said it or he really said doNT or die?

Atleast he has characterised leavers aright - viz lemmings

[youtube]AOOs8MaR1YM[/youtube]

(nice music)

[roubaixtuesday]

Apparently Johnson has now said Brexit 31st October "Do or die".

Brexit: Now a death cult. Seems about right.

will be interesting to seee how he gets out of that one?

I honestly think he hasn't even considered it.

In his head he'll just be able to blag it when it comes around.

He's just needs now to get the support of Tory party members, and that's exactly what they want to hear, so he's saying it.

[merseymouth]

Hello Oldjohnw, I am not prepared to pay for copies of the Daily Telegraph for you, simply accept that the articles mentioned are correctly reported, believe it or not is for you to decide! I don't tell lies, so stop beating your gums!
Why shouldn't we mention more than one Brexit issue in a post? Multi tasking is surely a twenty-first century must have skill.
As I have said before none of this bad tempered debate would have been necessary had the E.U. accepted the fact that reform is long overdue, less top end dictatorship, then maybe the UK would be looking forward to still playing an active part in a co-operative body and not trying to leave a potential Super State!
Not what most of us want. IGICB MM

[bovlomov]

Hello Oldjohnw, I am not prepared to pay for copies of the Daily Telegraph for you, simply accept that the articles mentioned are correctly reported, believe it or not is for you to decide! I don't tell lies, so stop beating your gums!
Why shouldn't we mention more than one Brexit issue in a post? Multi tasking is surely a twenty-first century must have skill.
As I have said before none of this bad tempered debate would have been necessary had the E.U. accepted the fact that reform is long overdue, less top end dictatorship, then maybe the UK would be looking forward to still playing an active part in a co-operative body and not trying to leave a potential Super State!
Not what most of us want. IGICB MM

Reforms have happened and continue to happen.
The EU is not a dictatorship in any sense.

We don't know if you are telling lies, but often you refuse to engage with follow up questions or comments.

[windmiller]

The Guardian is festooned with anti Uk bias surely you are aware of that? It is also anti USA (even prior to Trump) and Israel in outlook. Mark Carney, ex Governor of Mordor enough said, just join the dots and follow his yellow brick road.
As for logic, it would be logical to leave the EU then make or break deals with them, that is logic, not grovelling to them while their tentacles are still around our throats.

You are confusing logic with your opinions. Your opinions might be based on logic, but we can't tell. You never pursue any line of argument for long enough to get to its root, and instead throw in one assertion after another.

OK. Here goes. Why is it logical to leave the EU and then make or break deals with them? Will we be able to make better deals? Will we have more influence? Will there be any down sides? Is the UK, with its current leadership, able to manage the changing economy?

Ok here by analogy is why it is logical in my opinion to leave the EU before the UK does a deal with them.

Doing deals on this scale is just like a giant game of poker, would you play your hand before or after it has been dealt? I would chose to play after it has been dealt otherwise you are playing blind, which is the case while we are still in the EU.

Think of A as the remain camp, B as the supporters of brexit and C as the EU. B is negotiating with A and C while still in the middle of them, which A and C clearly want to remain so and don't want B to leave. What is the real incentive for A and C to settle on good terms with B. Zero incentive is the answer which is why we are still on a road to nowhere 3 years later.

The EU and most remainers have never accepted the reality that we voted to leave, as long as that is stalled by any means, then the reality of we have never left so far so we never will is only reinforced by that negative mindset.

[roubaixtuesday]

The Guardian is festooned with anti Uk bias surely you are aware of that? It is also anti USA (even prior to Trump) and Israel in outlook. Mark Carney, ex Governor of Mordor enough said, just join the dots and follow his yellow brick road.
As for logic, it would be logical to leave the EU then make or break deals with them, that is logic, not grovelling to them while their tentacles are still around our throats.

You are confusing logic with your opinions. Your opinions might be based on logic, but we can't tell. You never pursue any line of argument for long enough to get to its root, and instead throw in one assertion after another.

OK. Here goes. Why is it logical to leave the EU and then make or break deals with them? Will we be able to make better deals? Will we have more influence? Will there be any down sides? Is the UK, with its current leadership, able to manage the changing economy?

Ok here by analogy is why it is logical in my opinion to leave the EU before the UK does a deal with them.

Doing deals on this scale is just like a giant game of poker, would you play your hand before or after it has been dealt? I would chose to play after it has been dealt otherwise you are playing blind, which is the case while we are still in the EU.

Think of A as the remain camp, B as the supporters of brexit and C as the EU. B is negotiating with ABC while still part of them, which A and C clearly want to remain so and don't want B to leave. What is the real incentive for A and C to settle on good terms with B. Zero incentive is the answer which is why we are still on a road to nowhere 3 years later.

The EU and most remainers have never accepted the reality that we voted to leave, as long as that is stalled by any means, then the reality of we have never left so far so we never will is only reinforced by that negative mindset.

Yep, walk off a cliff before agreeing to put a ladder on it. Makes perfect sense.

[windmiller]

Well you can walk off the cliff if you must, I will chose to fly to new and better horizons. ladders often have snakes near them so that's a no no too.

[Mike Sales]

Well you can walk off the cliff if you must, I will chose to fly to new and better horizons.

No doubt on the back of your unicorn?

[windmiller]

Well you can walk off the cliff if you must, I will chose to fly to new and better horizons.

No doubt on the back of your unicorn?

I would never buy a unicorn from your stables.

[bovlomov]

The Guardian is festooned with anti Uk bias surely you are aware of that? It is also anti USA (even prior to Trump) and Israel in outlook. Mark Carney, ex Governor of Mordor enough said, just join the dots and follow his yellow brick road.
As for logic, it would be logical to leave the EU then make or break deals with them, that is logic, not grovelling to them while their tentacles are still around our throats.

You are confusing logic with your opinions. Your opinions might be based on logic, but we can't tell. You never pursue any line of argument for long enough to get to its root, and instead throw in one assertion after another.

OK. Here goes. Why is it logical to leave the EU and then make or break deals with them? Will we be able to make better deals? Will we have more influence? Will there be any down sides? Is the UK, with its current leadership, able to manage the changing economy?

Ok here by analogy is why it is logical in my opinion to leave the EU before the UK does a deal with them.

Doing deals on this scale is just like a giant game of poker, would you play your hand before or after it has been dealt? I would chose to play after it has been dealt otherwise you are playing blind, which is the case while we are still in the EU.

Think of A as the remain camp, B as the supporters of brexit and C as the EU. B is negotiating with A and C while still in the middle of them, which A and C clearly want to remain so and don't want B to leave. What is the real incentive for A and C to settle on good terms with B. Zero incentive is the answer which is why we are still on a road to nowhere 3 years later.

The EU and most remainers have never accepted the reality that we voted to leave, as long as that is stalled by any means, then the reality of we have never left so far so we never will is only reinforced by that negative mindset.

Yes, I can see it could work like that. Our own government spent two years telling us that it had to keep all options open, and keep the possibility of No Deal on the table as a bargaining tactic. Alas, everyone knew that the UK was utterly unprepared for No Deal, and that what they were keeping close to their chest was the fact they hadn't done a thing to prepare. I know that will all be blamed on 'remainer' May, but all of her cabinet were in on the empty bluff, including the very Brexity Davis and Raab.

For the record, I wouldn't have been against Brexit in principle. The problem with Brexit was, and is, that its proponents are liars and fantasists. They spent decades moaning about the EU, but were too lazy to think about the alternative. That's why, I think, your suggested tactic will fail. The EU sees through the Brexiters, even if some of our own population hasn't.

[merseymouth]

Hello Moderator, When poster states that they don't know if a fellow poster is lying it is surely overstepping the mark?
If they can prove that newspapers are stating untrue facts then say that, but to infer or imply that a fellow poster being untruthful is quite out of order!
We have been warned to avoid revenge posting, so as someone who has been gated for less I feel enough is enough!!
Brexit is divisive enough without needless rancour. MM

[windmiller]

We have had a remainer government under May. So surprise surprise we are still in the EU 3 years later.

Perhaps a Corbyn led cultural liberal marxist United Soviet Kingdom would be a good idea. The estranged former UK would devolve into wretched impoverished idiocy very rapidly and the EU would eject us as soon as possible.

[PDQ Mobile]

Hello Moderator, When poster states that they don't know if a fellow poster is lying it is surely overstepping the mark?
If they can prove that newspapers are stating untrue facts then say that, but to infer or imply that a fellow poster being untruthful is quite out of order!
We have been warned to avoid revenge posting, so as someone who has been gated for less I feel enough is enough!!
Brexit is divisive enough without needless rancour. MM

Hmmm.And from your own keypad.

Hello playmates
......
I suppose rose tinted specs are desired items for Remainers & Trots alike? . IGICB MM"

Hello Oldjohnw, I am not prepared to pay for copies of the Daily Telegraph for you, simply accept that the articles mentioned are correctly reported, believe it or not is for you to decide! I don't tell lies, so stop beating your gums!