** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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mercalia
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 13 Sep 2019, 9:17pm

Psamathe wrote:
mercalia wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Looks like we'll have to endure the person that started all this madness for the next week or so. "For The Recod" (Cameron's fantasy history explaining his perfection?) - but not looking good at the moment
And trying to promote his book a bit he's started lashing out at Piffle and others

...........
Ian



i'll pick up my copy when it ends up in Oxfam's. Any one know is it shiney paper? :wink:

I wont. I'm not interested spending my time reading an overprivileged incompetent's efforts to patch over such a massive disaster he created for the UK. I actually find it quite amusing when these entitled twerps thonk they are literary geniuses, write a book and it flops. Like Moggs
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/jacob-rees-mogg-victorians-book-panned-critics-reviews-a8920801.html wrote:Jacob Rees-Mogg's new book on the Victorians universally panned by critics

Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg’s new book has been savaged by the critics, who have dismissed his tribute to the Victorians as “staggeringly silly”, “sentimental jingoism” and “so terrible”.
...

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/jacob-rees-mogg-book-victorians-general-napier-review/ wrote:Jacob Rees-Mogg criticised as ‘morally repellent’ for defending Victorian colonialist General Napier in widely panned book


Ian



you clearly didnt get "Any one know is it shiney paper?" :wink: Shiney paper dont work well?

Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 13 Sep 2019, 9:21pm

mercalia wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
mercalia wrote:

i'll pick up my copy when it ends up in Oxfam's. Any one know is it shiney paper? :wink:

I wont. I'm not interested spending my time reading an overprivileged incompetent's efforts to patch over such a massive disaster he created for the UK. I actually find it quite amusing when these entitled twerps thonk they are literary geniuses, write a book and it flops. Like Moggs
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/jacob-rees-mogg-victorians-book-panned-critics-reviews-a8920801.html wrote:Jacob Rees-Mogg's new book on the Victorians universally panned by critics

Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg’s new book has been savaged by the critics, who have dismissed his tribute to the Victorians as “staggeringly silly”, “sentimental jingoism” and “so terrible”.
...

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/jacob-rees-mogg-book-victorians-general-napier-review/ wrote:Jacob Rees-Mogg criticised as ‘morally repellent’ for defending Victorian colonialist General Napier in widely panned book


Ian



you clearly didnt get "Any one know is it shiney paper?" :wink: Shiney paper dont work well?

Nope, I didn't get it.

Ian

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 13 Sep 2019, 10:57pm

Psamathe wrote:
mercalia wrote:
Psamathe wrote:I wont. I'm not interested spending my time reading an overprivileged incompetent's efforts to patch over such a massive disaster he created for the UK. I actually find it quite amusing when these entitled twerps thonk they are literary geniuses, write a book and it flops. Like Moggs


Ian



you clearly didnt get "Any one know is it shiney paper?" :wink: Shiney paper dont work well?

Nope, I didn't get it.

Ian


THe book may be written by an arrse wipe but if it's printed on shiny paper it can't be used for that purpose.
Last edited by pete75 on 14 Sep 2019, 9:34am, edited 1 time in total.

Psamathe
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Re: When will Article 50 be repealed, and if so how will it come about?

Postby Psamathe » 14 Sep 2019, 12:49am

Carlton green wrote:Brexit is, I find, a somewhat nasty and divisive topic which I wouldn’t normally touch with a ten foot barge pole. However, with the recent upsets in Parliament in mind, I just wonder how long it will be before article fifty (notice) is repealed - my own view is irrelevant and I’m not giving it. If there is bias in the question then it’s due to clumsy wording rather than intent.

What’s the informed opinion about what’s likely to happen and how It will come about ?? For clarification what you’d like to happen is a separate question and not the one that that I’m asking - answers to that one elsewhere please.

a.Your own view is not irrelevant (particularly as you've bothered to ask the question)

b. You are unlikely to get "informed opinion" here; lots of opinion and lots of quotes from a range of sources but probably mostly just "opinion".

c. My own opinion is that there are a lot of steps before article 50 could be revoked - so many that make it nigh on impossible to predict. According to the courts we can revoke Article 50 at any point until we leave. But, unless the Lib Dems win the next election, Conservative, Labour or any coalition would need a referendum before they'd have the confidence to revoke Article 50. So a couple of public votes before we get there and predicting those ... my opinion is probably more my wishes than anything based on polls or data.

Ian

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 14 Sep 2019, 9:51am

Psamathe wrote:You really don't recognise Reese-Mogg nor Gove nor Javid, etc. (or have I missed a smiley in you post)?
No smiley coz I'm not joking.

How do you - or anyone else - know what someone looks like if you've never seen them?
We collect old newspapers from people/pubs, and line the parrot's cage and/or light the fires with them.
Parrot is "reading" a Financial Times dated 10th Oct 2018. :D
When I light the fire, I rarely even look at the paper. It gets screwed up and lit.

We listen to the radio, often R4, but the images are in your head, not in your eyes. It was only recently that I saw what Teresa May looked like when I did catch a glance of a newspaper. I recognise Bojo from when we had a telly years ago watching HIGNFY.
Mick F. Cornwall

Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Psamathe » 14 Sep 2019, 10:02am

Mick F wrote:
Psamathe wrote:You really don't recognise Reese-Mogg nor Gove nor Javid, etc. (or have I missed a smiley in you post)?
No smiley coz I'm not joking.

How do you - or anyone else - know what someone looks like if you've never seen them?
We collect old newspapers from people/pubs, and line the parrot's cage and/or light the fires with them.
Parrot is "reading" a Financial Times dated 10th Oct 2018. :D
When I light the fire, I rarely even look at the paper. It gets screwed up and lit.

We listen to the radio, often R4, but the images are in your head, not in your eyes. It was only recently that I saw what Teresa May looked like when I did catch a glance of a newspaper. I recognise Bojo from when we had a telly years ago watching HIGNFY.

What surprises me is how you can feel so strongly we should leave yet seem to have no source or motivation to find out fact about the EU, about the impact of leaving, about the validity of claims posted through your letter box (campaign material), etc. Without such information do you really feel your vote/opinion is best for the UK and the prospects of the younger generations?

Ian

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 14 Sep 2019, 10:09am

Psamathe wrote:
Mick F wrote:
Psamathe wrote:You really don't recognise Reese-Mogg nor Gove nor Javid, etc. (or have I missed a smiley in you post)?
No smiley coz I'm not joking.

How do you - or anyone else - know what someone looks like if you've never seen them?
We collect old newspapers from people/pubs, and line the parrot's cage and/or light the fires with them.
Parrot is "reading" a Financial Times dated 10th Oct 2018. :D
When I light the fire, I rarely even look at the paper. It gets screwed up and lit.

We listen to the radio, often R4, but the images are in your head, not in your eyes. It was only recently that I saw what Teresa May looked like when I did catch a glance of a newspaper. I recognise Bojo from when we had a telly years ago watching HIGNFY.

What surprises me is how you can feel so strongly we should leave yet seem to have no source or motivation to find out fact about the EU, about the impact of leaving, about the validity of claims posted through your letter box (campaign material), etc. Without such information do you really feel your vote/opinion is best for the UK and the prospects of the younger generations?

Ian

He goes down the pub regularly.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 14 Sep 2019, 11:14am

What surprises me, is that you are asking the same question time and time again.

I actually don't really care one way or another, but I never wanted to join a united Europe in the first place. I wouldn't die in a ditch over this ........... as I've said lots of times .....................

We had a referendum, and I voted and I still stand by my vote.

............. but I'm repeating myself.
Mick F. Cornwall

slowster
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby slowster » 14 Sep 2019, 11:16am

It seems to me that the reasons for MickF's wanting to leave the EU are, for want of better words, 'emotional' as opposed to 'rational'. It's tempting to dismiss a choice made on emotional grounds rather than rational ones, but often the biggest decisions of our lives are emotional choices rather than rational ones, e.g. marriage, a home purchase, a choice of work or career etc.

Conversely, I think that the reasons for Germany in particular wanting to be in the EU, and happily paying the lion's share of its budget and giving up its cherished strong Deutschmark, are mainly emotional ones, i.e. EU and european identity offers a very appealing alternative to simply identifying as German, given Germany's history over the last 80 years.

Just as much as Germans want that close relationship and ties with other european countries, MickF and many others do not want it.

Moreover, I think Germany's desire for it has led to harmful consequences. Because of the legacy of WW2, not only has Germany felt it necessary to be the biggest funder of the EU, many other countries have also expected Germany to pay. This has resulted in bad political decision making and distorted the political direction and economies of other countries. This was most apparent at the height of Greece's economic troubles, when it became clear that many greek people and their government took the view that Germany 'owed them' and should be prepared to bail them out. If Germany had not allowed Greece to join the Euro, had not in all probability turned a blind eye to Greece lying about its finances, had not ignored the warning signs of excessive greek government borrowing because of the low interest it had access to as a result of Euro membership, then Greece would have had to take a different direction, and would probably be in a far better condition today.

You can see the German/Greek/EU relationship both from a rational perspective, e.g. looking at the economic statistics, but also from an emotional one. A relationship between two supposedly equal nation states was distorted by the financial dependence of one on the other, e.g. like a family member that cannot live within their means and constantly asks brothers and sisters to help them out - in giving money the siblings don't actually make things better: it just continues and increases the dependency and dysfunction of that family member.

Some of the dynamics that underpin the EU appear unhealthy, especially viewed from an emotional perspective, and are likely to lead to more bad decisions.

I think MickF has the most coherent argument for leaving the EU that I've seen expressed by a Leave voter.

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 14 Sep 2019, 11:27am

slowster wrote:I think MickF has the most coherent argument for leaving the EU that I've seen expressed by a Leave voter.
Thank you.
Mick F. Cornwall

windmiller
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby windmiller » 14 Sep 2019, 11:30am

The Victorians spawned the CTC and were at the dawn of modern cycling.

The postmodernistic view of them is pathetic and hypocritical, unlike the Victorians who were only part-time hypocrites.. They were the gateway to real liberalism and not the intolerant grubby champagne marxism that passes for it today.

Anyway back to Mogg's book - As it triggers and vexes the far left so much, it must be a good read.

Mike Sales
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mike Sales » 14 Sep 2019, 11:43am

windmiller wrote:The Victorians spawned the CTC and were at the dawn of modern cycling.

The postmodernistic view of them is pathetic and hypocritical, unlike the Victorians who were only part-time hypocrites.. They were the gateway to real liberalism and not the intolerant grubby champagne marxism that passes for it today.

Anyway back to Mogg's book - As it triggers and vexes the far left so much, it must be a good read.


The Victorians by Jacob Rees-Mogg review — ‘a staggeringly silly piece of history’
This is not serious history, just a silly bit of self-promotion by a politician with an obvious agenda, says AN Wilson


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-victorians-by-jacob-rees-mogg-book-review-zqltrw5rz

Having always admired Jacob Rees-Mogg for his integrity – you don’t get much of that in politics these days – I find it hard to believe he actually wrote this book or, if someone wrote it for him, allowed it to be published under his name. It is a complete turkey.
The author (or at any rate the man whose name appears on the title page: Rees-Mogg speaks English beautifully, yet parts of this appear to have been written by a baboon) tries to characterise the Victorian age through some of its people.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/victorians-jacob-rees-mogg-review-cliched-lazy-history-often/

So you regard Simon Heffer and A.N. Wilson as far left! I think that description would surprise them. No doubt you see The Times and The Daily Telegraph as Comintern fronts.

windmiller
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby windmiller » 14 Sep 2019, 11:55am

The only newspaper I read is the Guardian, when I manage to steal it from a person at work. I like the sports section the best. The political/comedy pages can be amusing.

Regarding book views by "textpert experts", I much prefer to physically hold a book and browse through it for 10 minutes to get a general feel for it, and make up my own mind about it rather than lazily allowing another to do it for me.

Mike Sales
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mike Sales » 14 Sep 2019, 12:01pm

windmiller wrote:The only newspaper I read is the Guardian, when I manage to steal it from a person at work. I like the sports section the best. The political/comedy pages can be amusing.

Regarding book views by "textpert experts", I much prefer to physically hold a book and browse through it for 10 minutes to get a general feel for it, and make up my own mind about it rather than lazily allowing another to do it for me.


Have you read The Victorians ? Or even browsed it for 10minutes?
I quote reviews by two well known writers from the right of the spectrum to ridicule your idea that it is only the extreme left who see Tree-Frog's book as pitiful.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 14 Sep 2019, 12:21pm

Mick F wrote:What surprises me, is that you are asking the same question time and time again.

I actually don't really care one way or another, but I never wanted to join a united Europe in the first place. I wouldn't die in a ditch over this ........... as I've said lots of times .....................

We had a referendum, and I voted and I still stand by my vote.

............. but I'm repeating myself.


And contradicting yourself too!