PDQ Mobile wrote:Perhaps I could suggest that even an emotional decision has to be based on some kind of input or knowledge?
Otherwise it's just empty headed dross.
The important factor then is where does that knowledge, bias or gut feeling come from?
Clearly in the UK we have seen a EU hating campaign carried out across large sections of the powerful right wing press.
The EU often made, unfairly IMV, scapegoats for the failings of Westminster, the Global (particularly USA) financial system collapse and perhaps most significant of all, these last Tory ruled years.
As far as I am aware MickF has never tried to give detailed reasons for why he feels the way he does about EU membership. I agree that an emotional decision will be influenced and determined by external factors, but you have jumped from that to inferring that those factors are the negative reporting of the EU by segments of the UK media, and implicitly concluding that such an emotional decision in this case is likely to be based on rationally flawed arguments.
It's possible to have lived through the last 30 odd years and have formed a justifiably negative view of EU membership. You would not necessarily need to know all the ins and outs of the Greek financial crisis, including all the causes as well as the consequences, to come to a conclusion that there were some serious fundamental flaws in the EU. One can decide for oneself that there is something extremely wrong without needing to be versed in the details of economic theory and how the Euro works.
Going back further in recent history, I can recall the celebrations when the Euro was introduced, and the self-congratulatory enthusiasm of european politicians at the time. That seemed rather alien to me, as someone far away from it all in the UK, and I think I instinctively felt that the Euro was not quite as wonderful as it was being portrayed by politicians, i.e. I was a little bit sceptical because I tend to default to the view that if something looks too good to be true, it probably isn't. At the time senior members of the Bundesbank were very critical of aspects of the Euro, but I did not understand the economic theory that lay behind their criticism. The short timespan between the introduction of the Euro and the Eurozone crisis bore out the economic criticisms in spades.
In many respects the adoption of the Euro mirrors Brexit: both decisions based on factors other than narrow economic ones, and taken despite warnings by 'experts', i.e. economists, that there would be negative/damaging consequences.
Going back even further there has been huge change and upheaval in Germany and the former Eastern Bloc countries that have joined the EU: the fall of the Berlin Wall and reunification of Germany, the collapse of the Warsaw Pact and Soviet/Russian control over the Eastern Bloc countries which have since joined the EU. Those changes have resulted in the modern history of those countries and their people being markedly different from the UK, which in turn was probably a huge factor in their decision to adopt a common currency, i.e. at this point in history they are on a different cultural/political trajectory to the UK and have a different outlook. So for those former Eastern Bloc countries, EU and Euro (and Nato) membership is fundamental to their sense of who they are and their countries' future.
It's understandable that the UK, which has had a very different experience of modern history compared with those countries, would feel differently about its EU membership, and I think Switzerland is similar: another country which was far less affected by WW2 and by the Cold War, and which has refused to join the EU.
PDQ Mobile wrote:The broader point about Germany and it's emotional attachment to the EU project has some credence.
Yet one must ask why is it that the German economy is so successful?.
There are obviously multiple reasons, many of which stem from what happened in Germany after WW2, but in recent history the Euro was a major factor in Germany's economic success. The Euro effectively made German exports much cheaper than they would have been compared with if Germany had still had the Deutschmark (and conversely increased the price of products exported by countries which had had much weaker currencies before they adopted the Euro). Economists warned that the Euro would result in these sort of imbalances between the northern and southern Euro members, but their warnings were largely ignored by politicians.