** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by kwackers »

Spinners wrote:
kwackers wrote:
Surely by explicitly picking a country you're being racist?



Actually, I didn't explicitly pick a country!!

Explain to me then what this statement means.

"So, a leave supporter who chips in with a comment like "I'm concerned about immigration from [insert name of East European country here]" becomes a racist"

Your comment isn't about immigration in general, it's about folk who pick a country being accused of racism.
Convince me otherwise.
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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by al_yrpal »

I beieve Labour MPs best bet is to vote for an early election. Corbyn says he will step down if Labour loses as it certainly will one way or another. So, its a dead cert way of getting rid of him. Thing is will he be replaced by another Marxist condemning Labour to oblivion?

Al
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Debs »

The only reason Johnson threatens a GE is because he's so terrified of a Conformationally Referendum, the whole point of his very non-transparent sneaky Out-In-Name-Only nebulous withdrawal deal is to absolutely prevent any possibility of a democratic Confirm-Ref before the people realise and wakeup to the real devil in the detail facts of Leaving the EU which no one knows about because they haven't been negotiated yet!
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Spinners
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Spinners »

al_yrpal wrote:
Everything about Saudi is abhorent from its treatment of women to its total lack of democracy.



+1.

I'd like to see the UK completely turn it's back on Saudi Arabia. At the very least we should not send them a single nut or bolt associated with armaments.
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kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by kwackers »

al_yrpal wrote:I beieve Labour MPs best bet is to vote for an early election. Corbyn says he will step down if Labour loses as it certainly will one way or another. So, its a dead cert way of getting rid of him. Thing is will he be replaced by another Marxist condemning Labour to oblivion?

Al

I think the best bet is for BoJo to get on with pushing his brexit deal through parliament.
He's got the go ahead for a second reading and appropriate parliamentary scrutiny - what more does he want?

A GE now is a distraction and the most likely outcome is a hung parliament - I very much doubt any party will be in a better position than they are now and that could mean another 5 years of fannying about.

If he genuinely wants brexit done he should get on with it.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mjr »

reohn2 wrote:The only coherent argument from any Brexit supporter on this thread that I've seen was from PWA who felt that immigration was out of hand.
A view which I dont share and which I argued against without calling him xenophobic or racist,because I don't believe him to be either.

It's an argument, but I think it's not coherent because the UK has never used all the immigration controls it has as an EU member and I don't see any reason to expect that to change after Brexit. British businesses want more workers, so the rightish parties will always allow immigration and it's seen as solidarity so the leftish parties will always allow immigration. I think the main difference from Brexit will be that emigration will become more difficult, to the detriment of British workers trapped in this jobs market.
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Spinners
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Spinners »

kwackers wrote:
Spinners wrote:
kwackers wrote:
Surely by explicitly picking a country you're being racist?



Actually, I didn't explicitly pick a country!!

Explain to me then what this statement means.

"So, a leave supporter who chips in with a comment like "I'm concerned about immigration from [insert name of East European country here]" becomes a racist"

Your comment isn't about immigration in general, it's about folk who pick a country being accused of racism.
Convince me otherwise.


I don't have to convince you of anything. Can't you see my example was to give a flavour of what the response is on this forum to any leave supporter and on any aspect?
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Debs
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Debs »

Spinners wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:
Everything about Saudi is abhorent from its treatment of women to its total lack of democracy.



+1.

I'd like to see the UK completely turn it's back on Saudi Arabia. At the very least we should not send them a single nut or bolt associated with armaments.


Post-Brexit the Tory-Brexit UK gov will be only too happy to do deals with them; Money talks and Bullsh1t walks...
kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by kwackers »

Spinners wrote:I don't have to convince you of anything. Can't you see my example was to give a flavour of what the response is on this forum to any leave supporter and on any aspect?

Err, so your example was meant to show that a racist statement was racist?
Or did you really mean to just say "immigration" and now can't simply admit you were wrong?

Or perhaps you're trying to say it's only racist because a leave supporter said it?

It's simply racist. Leave or remain a statement that says you're concerned about Polish* immigration is inherently racist but I was hoping you'd qualify it with something that might remove that.
(* Insert country of your choice)

For example:
"I object to immigration from Eastern Europe because it will cause the continent to tilt submerging western Europe whilst making eastern Europe too high to support life."
(Or something like that)
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Spinners
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Spinners »

kwackers wrote:
Spinners wrote:I don't have to convince you of anything. Can't you see my example was to give a flavour of what the response is on this forum to any leave supporter and on any aspect?

Err, so your example was meant to show that a racist statement was racist?
Or did you really mean to just say "immigration" and now can't simply admit you were wrong?

Or perhaps you're trying to say it's only racist because a leave supporter said it?

It's simply racist. Leave or remain a statement that says you're concerned about Polish* immigration is inherently racist but I was hoping you'd qualify it with something that might remove that.
(* Insert country of your choice)

For example:
"I object to immigration from Eastern Europe because it will cause the continent to tilt submerging western Europe whilst making eastern Europe too high to support life."
(Or something like that)


You are totally missing the point. Take a step back and reflect on the recent sequence of events on this forum.

Leave supporters are being baited to say why leaving is so good.

I made a comment along the lines of well perhaps it's because if the say xxx then they soon get accused of being xxx to the power of 10.

Incredibly, the examples I gave are now seen as my views. :roll: :roll:
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by reohn2 »

mjr wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The only coherent argument from any Brexit supporter on this thread that I've seen was from PWA who felt that immigration was out of hand.
A view which I dont share and which I argued against without calling him xenophobic or racist,because I don't believe him to be either.

It's an argument, but I think it's not coherent because the UK has never used all the immigration controls it has as an EU member and I don't see any reason to expect that to change after Brexit. British businesses want more workers, so the rightish parties will always allow immigration and it's seen as solidarity so the leftish parties will always allow immigration. I think the main difference from Brexit will be that emigration will become more difficult, to the detriment of British workers trapped in this jobs market.

I meant coherently argued,perhaps I should've written reasonably argued.Either way I disagreed with it but in a reasonable manner.

That said I have to admit to 'losing it' with some unreasonable and incoherant and unreasonable Brexit supporters on the thread who it seems can't reasonably or coherently argue their point and as a result to childish antics and behaviour.
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kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by kwackers »

Spinners wrote:You are totally missing the point. Take a step back and reflect on the recent sequence of events on this forum.

Leave supporters are being baited to say why leaving is so good.

I made a comment along the lines of well perhaps it's because if the say xxx then they soon get accused of being xxx to the power of 10.

Incredibly, the examples I gave are now seen as my views. :roll: :roll:

I don't see them as your views, I just don't follow (even after your explanation) what you're trying achieve.
If someone makes a racist statement then it's a racist statement.

As for "baiting" there are people on here that claim things will be great after brexit but refuse to elaborate.
I don't see anything wrong with expecting such claims to be backed up with some sort of argument in favour.
reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote:I was in Chile not that long ago, its democratic now, seesawing between Socialists and Capitalists although there is currently unrest amongst the poorest over fares etc, just like Brazil. Argentina is about to embrace Peronism again because Capitalism didnt work, but in Argentina nothing seems to work. I dont support Saudi and dont know anyone who does. Its quite easy to point out these things but can you imagine Corbyn as our best choice for leader, I cant. Do you think hes a better choice than a Tory? Are you going to vote for him?

Al

Can Corbyn be any worse than the last three PM's and would his governemnt be any worse than the past three Tory governments?

PS,I'm waiting for a Diane Abbot response.
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by reohn2 »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
100%JR wrote:
reohn2 wrote:So what have you got to convince remainers that Brexit is such a good idea?

Not one leaver has posted anything holds any water in 1370 pages so I wouldn't hold your breath........

No surprise there aren't many people on here to oppose the remainers.
How many leavers on here use animal words in their posts?
That's the problem isn't it.

It might be that Mick Al and Me Are simply old-fashioned.


What is that supposed to even mean?
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by bovlomov »

The simple facts are 1) that there are unemployed British people and 2) some jobs are being done by immigrants.

There have been attempts to directly link those two facts: i.e. Immigrants are taking the jobs that British people could do. It's a powerful argument, and it is true on one level. But it fails to take into account the multi-layered complexity of the situation and the impossibility of solving the equation simply by moving numbers from one side to the other.

This is a discussion - as with many - that we should have been having before June 2016.
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