** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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100%JR
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by 100%JR »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
PDQ Mobile wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Negative things Remain people have observed during and after referendum:

Racism
Murderous threats
Murder
Pound collapse

Quite so.

But this stuff of al's has been trotted out ad nauseum now.
It is all meaningless because we haven't left yet, not one iota.

The acid test will be after we leave.
That must be obvious to (almost) anyone.

Ah, a remainer that says "after we leave" that's a first.........realist.
Don't tell us you will vote Green Party :)

Rather than just fleeting by every 30 or 40 pages care to answer this?

100%JR wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,

No surprise there aren't many people on here to oppose the remainers.
How many leavers on here use animal words in their posts?
That's the problem isn't it.

It might be that Mick Al and Me Are simply old-fashioned.


What is that supposed to even mean?

I'd like to know that too!

Thanks.
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Paulatic
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Paulatic »

# HAPPY BREXIT DAY #
:D :D
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life

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Oldjohnw
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Oldjohnw »

Paulatic wrote:# HAPPY BREXIT DAY #
:D :D



Breathe the fresh air of freedom!
John
PDQ Mobile
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by PDQ Mobile »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
PDQ Mobile wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Negative things Remain people have observed during and after referendum:

Racism
Murderous threats
Murder
Pound collapse

Quite so.

But this stuff of al's has been trotted out ad nauseum now.
It is all meaningless because we haven't left yet, not one iota.

The acid test will be after we leave.
That must be obvious to (almost) anyone.

Ah, a remainer that says "after we leave" that's a first.........realist.
Don't tell us you will vote Green Party :)


Well to say that none of things things had happened BEFORE we actually left and use that as some sort of proof of "Project Fear" seems frankly quite absurd. Daft even.
"Old John" pointed to a few that had actually happened already.

I would say I am something of a realist.
And something of an idealist.
An unusual combination that requires a wide experience. And a sunny disposition. :shock:

I have often voted Green in the past it is true.
If the UK had PR, as have EU elections, maybe we could have got more done.

Election coming up.
Stradageek
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Stradageek »

roubaixtuesday wrote:Belief that we are exceptional, and this will somehow trump free trade with our main trading partners is pure hubris and doomed to failure. The rest of the world is laughing at us and our nationalist fantasy.

For a rigorous academic analysis read 'Rule Britannia' by Danny Dorling - to precis the book:

Things fall apart when empires crumble. This time, we think, things will be different. They are not. This time, we are told, we will become great again. We will not.

In Rule Britannia, Danny Dorling and Sally Tomlinson argue that the vote to leave the EU was the last gasp of the old empire working its way out of the British psyche. Fuelled by a misplaced nostalgia, the result was driven by a lack of knowledge of Britain's imperial history, by a profound anxiety about Britain's status today, and by a deeply unrealistic vision of our future.

Whatever happens next, Britain will be and has already been inevitably diminished by the Brexit vote. There is no welcoming group of countries ready to swiftly embrace new trading relationships with us.

And yet, there is hope. In this wide-ranging and thoughtful analysis, Dorling and Tomlinson argue that if Britain can reconcile itself to a new beginning, there is the chance to carve out a new identity. Rule Britannia is a call to leave behind the jingoistic ignorance of the past and build a fairer Britain, eradicating the inequality that blights our society and embracing our true strengths.
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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mjr »

Oldjohnw wrote:
Paulatic wrote:# HAPPY BREXIT DAY #
:D :D



Breathe the fresh air of freedom!

Are the promised Leave riots starting at 9am, 5pm, 11pm or tomorrow morning?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
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Cugel
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Cugel »

Stradageek wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:Belief that we are exceptional, and this will somehow trump free trade with our main trading partners is pure hubris and doomed to failure. The rest of the world is laughing at us and our nationalist fantasy.

For a rigorous academic analysis read 'Rule Britannia' by Danny Dorling - to precis the book:

Things fall apart when empires crumble. This time, we think, things will be different. They are not. This time, we are told, we will become great again. We will not.

In Rule Britannia, Danny Dorling and Sally Tomlinson argue that the vote to leave the EU was the last gasp of the old empire working its way out of the British psyche. Fuelled by a misplaced nostalgia, the result was driven by a lack of knowledge of Britain's imperial history, by a profound anxiety about Britain's status today, and by a deeply unrealistic vision of our future.

Whatever happens next, Britain will be and has already been inevitably diminished by the Brexit vote. There is no welcoming group of countries ready to swiftly embrace new trading relationships with us.

And yet, there is hope. In this wide-ranging and thoughtful analysis, Dorling and Tomlinson argue that if Britain can reconcile itself to a new beginning, there is the chance to carve out a new identity. Rule Britannia is a call to leave behind the jingoistic ignorance of the past and build a fairer Britain, eradicating the inequality that blights our society and embracing our true strengths.


There is opportunity in Brexit - but not for the peasants. We will be curtailed in various ways - exploited a bit harder by the New Aristocrats of financial speculators and their tame clowns in Parliament providing the bread and circus (although there'll also be less bread). Bojo & The Ergs have a vision of Blighty as a fine place to make money via legalised (by them) criminality, from hedge funds to money laundering to own&rentit schemes bolstering the greed of the 0.1%.

Of course, there may be a period of insurrection by the peasants, as BoJo & The Ergs (lacking all empathy or other ability to grasp the disaffection they will come to be held in) go too far. But revolutions are no panacea. They often result in a polity far less benign than that of the rascals recently deposed.

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
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merseymouth
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by merseymouth »

Morning all, So we mustn't play the "We Won", "You Lost" game, sounds like some folk will have to become less combative?
So a simple question for you - To the group that came 2nd in the Referendum "When will you accept that the wishes of the folk who got more crosses on the Ballot Paper have to be respected and allow then to negotiate an exit?"! Not too difficult is it? :roll: IGICB Must go and check my Hedge Fund, may have enough to get some new shears to trim it! MM
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by djnotts »

merseymouth wrote:Morning all, So we mustn't play the "We Won", "You Lost" game, sounds like some folk will have to become less combative?
So a simple question for you - To the group that came 2nd in the Referendum "When will you accept that the wishes of the folk who got more crosses on the Ballot Paper have to be respected and allow then to negotiate an exit?"! Not too difficult is it? :roll: IGICB Must go and check my Hedge Fund, may have enough to get some new shears to trim it! MM


Simple answer - never. Why would I respect a national and world view which I consider as wrong and potentially evil? I shall probably have to live beneath the yoke imposed by those few who brought it about for their own enrichment by manipulation of the fears of the masses, but respect it, no.
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mjr
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mjr »

merseymouth wrote:Morning all, So we mustn't play the "We Won", "You Lost" game, sounds like some folk will have to become less combative?
So a simple question for you - To the group that came 2nd in the Referendum "When will you accept that the wishes of the folk who got more crosses on the Ballot Paper have to be respected and allow then to negotiate an exit?"! Not too difficult is it? :roll: IGICB Must go and check my Hedge Fund, may have enough to get some new shears to trim it! MM

We already accepted that. A leader of Vote Leave has been negotiating an exit since the summer (taking over from Leavers like Davies and Raab before him) and made a right Horlicks of it, as far as anyone can tell! Not the Norway or Switzerland deals promised by his referendum campaign, but a May minus minus hard Brexit deal.

Equally simple question for you and other Leavers: "when will you accept that democracy means we should check that years more of this mess is what the 52% prefer to remaining in the Union and fighting for reform?"
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Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Psamathe »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
PDQ Mobile wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Negative things Remain people have observed during and after referendum:

Racism
Murderous threats
Murder
Pound collapse

Quite so.

But this stuff of al's has been trotted out ad nauseum now.
It is all meaningless because we haven't left yet, not one iota.

The acid test will be after we leave.
That must be obvious to (almost) anyone.

Ah, a remainer that says "after we leave" that's a first.........realist.
Don't tell us you will vote Green Party :)

I'm a strong "Remainer" yet there are compromise solutions that involve the UK leaving the EU that I would accept. My "problem" is that the UK is going for a "harder" form of leaving that was not the same as that presented by leave campaigns during the pre-referendum campaigning.

e.g. I'd go along with Farangé when he said "Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing"

Ian
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Vorpal »

merseymouth wrote:Morning all, So we mustn't play the "We Won", "You Lost" game, sounds like some folk will have to become less combative?
So a simple question for you - To the group that came 2nd in the Referendum "When will you accept that the wishes of the folk who got more crosses on the Ballot Paper have to be respected and allow then to negotiate an exit?"! Not too difficult is it? :roll: IGICB Must go and check my Hedge Fund, may have enough to get some new shears to trim it! MM

So a simple question for you - when are they going to negotiate an exit that is palatable to their own party, let alone the rest of the UK?
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Psamathe
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Psamathe »

merseymouth wrote:Morning all, So we mustn't play the "We Won", "You Lost" game, sounds like some folk will have to become less combative?
So a simple question for you - To the group that came 2nd in the Referendum "When will you accept that the wishes of the folk who got more crosses on the Ballot Paper have to be respected and allow then to negotiate an exit?"! Not too difficult is it? :roll: IGICB Must go and check my Hedge Fund, may have enough to get some new shears to trim it! MM

If those in power come-up with a solution that matches the "Leave" presented during the referendum campaigns then Yes.

For example, when they come up with a leave solution that stops us sending £350m a week to the EU then fine (well be a long time waiting for that as we've never yet been at the point sending the EU anything like that amount).



Or maybe when we go for the Farngé proposed solution "Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing" or maybe the Aaron Banks proposed Leave "Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK".

Ian
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
A bit problematic and cumbersome trying to edit posts on my mobile so just try and answer questions here.
Firstly reference to animals –
I think I am probably just a little old-fashioned we don't need to make reference to such when describing people do we?
Same with cartoons.
"When we leave "I think I am 99% sure even safe to say that even I will go as far to say, after the election irrespective of what party/S is in control we will still be leaving, not because I say so but because not to leave would be going Against the majority vote.
On majority I would not agree a 52 to 48 Result as a result at all if I was asked this question before I voted.
But IIRC the MPs had a large majority on triggering article 50?
So we can not be surprised that the remainners feel frustrated, I would too.
Getting back to "when we leave" A remainer, A realist, we have to be real and the fact that we are leaving, I was just saying that It was a bit unusual to hear someone say that who is obviously a remainer That's all.
My reference to Green party was just an afterthought and a little dig that's all :)
Sarcastic even if I'm allowed that.

Like many others on here who read the post but never post, We simply don't have time to trawl through the reems of posts, So forgive me for not replying to all the questions.
The directions and the flow of questions changes constantly.
So if I appear fleetingly, I read something and something popped into my head like we all do.

I am dictating this with speech, and editing to correct mistakes where I can, any overuse of capitals it's because of the auto spelling and Grammer built in, turning these off makes it very in accurate , That's the speech recognition not the grammar et cetera.
In other words correct speech recognition comes with the flaws of extra capitals.
I've probably missed something as well.
We are not always going to agree on different sides are we.

On the election what will change?
We all know that our choice of party will be our choice of exit remain.

The battle goes on Judah.......I see no enemy - Reply :)
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
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Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
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Cugel
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Cugel »

merseymouth wrote:Morning all, So we mustn't play the "We Won", "You Lost" game, sounds like some folk will have to become less combative?
So a simple question for you - To the group that came 2nd in the Referendum "When will you accept that the wishes of the folk who got more crosses on the Ballot Paper have to be respected and allow then to negotiate an exit?"! Not too difficult is it? :roll: IGICB Must go and check my Hedge Fund, may have enough to get some new shears to trim it! MM


Nevah!

I feel we should recheck "the wishes" every day, as several will die, several are born, several come of voting age and several change their minds.

Even then, the wishes need not be respected, as many of them will be mad spittle-flecked yelps demanding some group or other be hung, drawn and quartered, perhaps twice. Soon we would all be dead!

Instead we could follow that fine old tradition of representative democracy, where the often crazy wishes of the population at large are mediated by some 600ish sensible folk in a big hoose. Mind, you have to find 600ish sensible folk. They are too much like the mad crazy wishing population at large these days.

Here is a mental experiment for 'ee. Imagine you have all the money and power sufficient for you to enforce all your own wishes, preferences, likes, prejudices and dark desires upon the rest of us. Would this be a good idea? Now imagine the unhappy circumstance where everyone has this money & power and their various wishes <-> dark desires align .......

In fact there is an actual experiment like this going on right now. The West has a more or less critical mass of such folk and they are arranging things as they see fit. It almost makes you wish that you'll die before you get old! :-)

Cugel
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