** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[djnotts]

Johnson-Farage deal more likely, in return for a Constituency where the latter can have a free run and then a cabinet post.

[Debs]

I would have thought Farage would be toxic for the torys?

If Farage stands down loads of Brexit Party MP candidates to boost Tory numbers he will be a tonic

[Psamathe]

I would have thought Farage would be toxic for the torys?

Lots of people out there passing opinions but maybe some are better informed than others.

From Politics Prof, Manchester University (I've no idea of how reliable his thoughts are but maybe better informed than the random selections on High Streets TV News seems so keen on broadcasting).

Appreciate this May be hard to follow so will break it down:
1. Most Lab votes in Leave seats Farage is targeting voted Remain in 2016
2.The voters who will find BXP most attractive in such seats likely to be those who voted UKIP in 2015
3. Most of those voters backed Con in 2017
4. Therefore, BXP will typically (tho not always) hurt Con more than Lab in such seats. Just as (and indeed because) UKIP’s collapse in 2017 benefitted Con more than Lab in such sets

Ian

[djnotts]

"Therefore, BXP will typically (tho not always) hurt Con more than Lab in such seats."

Why they have to be bought off.

[mercalia]

I would have thought Farage would be toxic for the torys?

Lots of people out there passing opinions but maybe some are better informed than others.

From Politics Prof, Manchester University (I've no idea of how reliable his thoughts are but maybe better informed than the random selections on High Streets TV News seems so keen on broadcasting).

Appreciate this May be hard to follow so will break it down:
1. Most Lab votes in Leave seats Farage is targeting voted Remain in 2016
2.The voters who will find BXP most attractive in such seats likely to be those who voted UKIP in 2015
3. Most of those voters backed Con in 2017
4. Therefore, BXP will typically (tho not always) hurt Con more than Lab in such seats. Just as (and indeed because) UKIP’s collapse in 2017 benefitted Con more than Lab in such sets

Ian

so listening to The World At One Farage was given a lot of air time to tell Boris to give up his deal and leave without a deal, if he wants his, Farages, support Makes me wonder how people get to believe what they do. A famous philosopher , Wittgenstein, in trying to understand religeous belief compared conversion to getting a knock on your head, a totally non rational experience Seems like Brexit is comparable? With Farage as the messiah?

[brooksby]

https://m.xkcd.com/2218/

[img]

wardrobe.png

[/img]

Just wanted to share

[horizon]

If anyone would like to comment on this article (from the LSE), I would welcome their views:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpoli ... exit-vote/

My own view is that while the author is largely correct (Brexit is based on Order versus Openness), what leaders do to exploit that fact and use it for other purposes (for example, winning an election, becoming party leader, liberalising trade, decreasing environmentall protection etc) is another matter.

Nor am I suggesting that Openness is better than Order; but I do say that it goes a long way to explain the views of Brexit supporters (including those on here). It also explains the anger of Remainers who are aghast at the way the (good) instincts of Leavers are IMV diverted by those who have a completely different (and bad) set of interests.

[horizon]

Just a quick quote from the above in case you don't have time to read it all:

Karen Stenner, author of the Authoritarian Dynamic, argues that people are divided between those who dislike difference – signifying a disordered identity and environment – and those who embrace it. The former abhor both ethnic and moral diversity. Many see the world as a dangerous place and wish to protect themselves from it.

[horizon]

There's more here too for further reading if you are interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Values_Modes

As you might have noticed, although I'm a Remainer (a "pioneer" ), I'm sympathetic to the views and feelings of those forum members who are Leavers ("settlers", perhaps ) believing them to be good people with sincerely held views, different from but no worse than my own.

[bovlomov]

There's more here too for further reading if you are interested:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Values_Modes

As you might have noticed, although I'm a Remainer (a "pioneer" ), I'm sympathetic to the views and feelings of those forum members who are Leavers ("settlers", perhaps ) believing them to be good people with sincerely held views, different from but no worse than my own.

Following your Wiki link.

Settlers are motivated by resources and by fear of perceived threats. They tend to be older, socially conservative and security conscious. They are often pessimistic about the future, and are driven by immediate, local issues affecting them and their family.

These "settlers" may be good people, as you say, but they don't seem to be the kind most of us would want to spend much time with.

"Shall we invite Mr and Mrs Settler around for a drink? "
"Why would we do that?"
"Well, they're good people"
"Yes, but they're always going on about water shortages and terrorist threats. And they won't want to leave the house empty anyway. And, blimey! they're depressing. All doom and gloom. And the only thing they care about is what happens to them and their children."
"But I like their sincerely held views"
"Their sincerely held views are both boring and mad. Quite a combination."
"OK. What about the Pioneers?"

[horizon]

Love it!

[al_yrpal]

I just love the way so many Remainers characterise Leavers. In reality that and the ludicrous assertions of Jo Swinson says shedloads about them.

Al

[horizon]

I just love the way so many Remainers characterise Leavers. In reality that and the ludicrous assertions of Jo Swinson says shedloads about them.

Al

The Remainers didn't, it was the LSE. It also won't characterise individual Leavers. And it doesn't make you a "settler", necessarily. What it might do is make sense of Brexit - for Remainers. One of my thoughts when I posted this is that a Leaver/settler might say, "What a load of airy-fairy old tosh - how about doing some real work!" etc etc.

It also doesn't IMV make Remain right - it shows it to be just a preference, as indeed Leave is.

[kwackers]

I just love the way so many Remainers characterise Leavers. In reality that and the ludicrous assertions of Jo Swinson says shedloads about them.

Al

If you want to characterise leavers you only need to hang around the leave areas of the web for a bit.
Plenty of rope out there for them to hang themselves with and they do a storming job of it too!

Perhaps the leavers on here aren't like them but if you identify with a group then you can't really complain if you get painted the same colour.

[horizon]

Another thing I want to note is that amongst some leave-voting aquaintances, the EU is very much the status-quo and Leave is the disruptor. So there isn't a complete correlation between "settler" and Leave.