** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Nov 2019, 5:11pm

PDQ, so, its ok for you to be patriotic, but its not ok for me? Hmmm, impecable logic there...? Stock markets are evil and so are investors, where would we be without them...like China or North Korea perhaps, brilliant idea that!

Keep em coming.. :lol:

Al
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Oldjohnw
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 15 Nov 2019, 6:18pm

al_yrpal wrote:PDQ, so, its ok for you to be patriotic, but its not ok for me? Hmmm, impecable logic there...? Stock markets are evil and so are investors, where would we be without them...like China or North Korea perhaps, brilliant idea that!

Keep em coming.. :lol:

Al


Stock Markets are integral to a market economy.

The Conservatives believe in an exclusively market economy.
John

Cycling and recycling

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 15 Nov 2019, 6:45pm

al_yrpal wrote:PDQ, so, its ok for you to be patriotic, but its not ok for me? Hmmm, impecable logic there...? Stock markets are evil and so are investors, where would we be without them...like China or North Korea perhaps, brilliant idea that!

Keep em coming.. :lol:

Al

Not at all.
It was you Al that cast patriotic aspersions upon those of us that think the EU is rather a good idea.
And that in some way that reduces our right of pride in our Nation, "Turns us into puppets"etc.
Please, you know so little of what you are suggesting.

Yet, you would rather us governed, it would seem, by a tiny elite who have cared so little about this great little island chain over the past decade that our hospitals are at busting point.
Our roads and particularly railways are underfunded and in a shocking state.
Prison populations are at all time highs, ubiquitous food-banks and homelessness and, in many places, the very fabric of civilized society seems to be fraying at the seams, largely in my view through the austerity policies of these Tories you see as "patriotic".
Ha you was conned.

You want to give them even more control. No thankyou.

As for the Stock Market issue.
I am well aware of the power of the Stock Markets to seduce even those of high standards with their promise of greater returns.
But care is required. In a world full of armed conflict big money is in the shares of the Arms industry. Death is dividend.
In Trump's rather sad USA the pharma sector is also dubiously powerful. Ask Rees Mogg, your rather weedy hero, he knows about making money out of abortion drugs, for example. Though he finds as an excuse on his conflicting and hypocritical view on abortion merely that " the world isn't perfect".
(Not with you around Mr Mogg!!)

There needs to be more regulation and transparency here. Do you not agree? The EU wants to do this slowly.

And then there's currency speculation which dwarves even the amounts of money in stocks and shares globally.
The sums involved are beyond astronomical.
((Quote: that trading in foreign exchange markets averaged $6.6 trillion per day in April 2019. This is up from $5.1 trillion in April 2016.))
source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_market

They serve of no benefit to little folk like myself. Indeed they actively make me poorer.
So yes another area where I would like to see some sort of "toothed" international body keep a better eye on this. Difficult given the sums involved but one has to start somewhere. There is too much laundered and "lost" money in here.

The EU is a promoter and supporter of this. It makes it very popular in some rarified places!!!

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Nov 2019, 7:24pm

Yuuuup! It's all their fault, the wicked Tories. Four legs good two legs bad. The situation is that many of the ills you mention require investment to produce the wealth that ultimately pays for social services and care of the vulnerable. The Soviet Union and it's satellites collapsed and China adopted the capitalist system to drag itself up from the Slough of Communism. Some people may not like it but the reality is controlled Capitalism delivers. Vote accordingly..

All of us can do our personal bit to help the disadvantaged and vulnerable too. Two of my tee shirts are on eBay at the moment sitting at £300, that's going to the deaf school my grandson attends along with a substantial 5 figure sum from the other 90 items on there. Us wicked Tory's do nothing. What do you do, just whinge?

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

mikeonabike
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mikeonabike » 15 Nov 2019, 8:00pm

al_yrpal wrote:Yuuuup! It's all their fault, the wicked Tories. Four legs good two legs bad. The situation is that many of the ills you mention require investment to produce the wealth that ultimately pays for social services and care of the vulnerable. The Soviet Union and it's satellites collapsed and China adopted the capitalist system to drag itself up from the Slough of Communism. Some people may not like it but the reality is controlled Capitalism delivers. Vote accordingly..

All of us can do our personal bit to help the disadvantaged and vulnerable too. Two of my tee shirts are on eBay at the moment sitting at £300, that's going to the deaf school my grandson attends along with a substantial 5 figure sum from the other 90 items on there. Us wicked Tory's do nothing. What do you do, just whinge?

Al
Yes China has made a big success of "controlled capitalism". Pity that the people in Hong Kong are whinging so much.

But I suspect that Johnson shares your aspiration for more controlled capitalism, as long as he does the controlling.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 15 Nov 2019, 8:19pm

al_yrpal wrote:Yuuuup! It's all their fault, the wicked Tories. Four legs good two legs bad. The situation is that many of the ills you mention require investment to produce the wealth that ultimately pays for social services and care of the vulnerable. The Soviet Union and it's satellites collapsed and China adopted the capitalist system to drag itself up from the Slough of Communism. Some people may not like it but the reality is controlled Capitalism delivers. Vote accordingly..
(Snip)

Al

I will!

But you're right, it is actually their fault!
The huge division in wealth distribution in the UK was a deliberate policy of the Tories from 2008 onwards.
They foresaw the results of the collapse, after the global banks over-speculated, and those in high places realized it would massively impact upon their wealth. So the nicked what they could from the poorest and most vulnerable in society. I don't think there's much doubt about that.
In these times of quantitive easing and low or even negative interest rates, I still get the odd mailshot extolling the virtues of some fine Gold edged Credit card. Annual Interest at 29.9 %. Sold as a bargain!! Imagine!!! A license to exploit. Should be illegal.

Your points on the drivers of wealth are only partially valid. There is a more utopian view- where just because one is the most predatory and rapacious beast on the street that DOES NOT lead to most of the street starving while the others sit back and play fund managers! Or are just simply possessors of the biggest muscles.

The example of China's adoption of a more capital based system has led amongst others to enormous environmental problems. Did you see the waste dump article on the BBC?
It's bizzarre really. 20 years ago they had a low key but pretty sustainable(and poor) economy. The sort of thing often extolled (on here) as a solution to climate change,
The Chinese also unfairly manipulate their currency to maintain competitive edge, so that doesn't fit your free market rules idea very well.

There is benefit in allowing investment to aid any economy- but it should be regulated. There are fine examples of state run railways and utilities all over the world. But they are responsible ultimately to the Govt of the day not simply shareholders. Profits get ploughed back in- people travel more cheaply.
Look what has happened to our railways overall since privatization. They're pretty crap comparatively.

As for your entrepreneurial ebay skills, I am sure they must be very fine T-shirts.
I am not an ebay user (unusually) or seller, tthough I do pop into the portal once in a while.
I am more of a "muck is money type", deep down, though there seems more muck and less money than formally! Possibly an age thing.

But it's pretty honest and straightforward way to live. Happy about that for sure.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Nov 2019, 9:54pm

Just focussing on negative aspects of everything just leaves one bitter and twisted... Focussing on positive things helps one and everyone else move onward and upwards. Guess what I'm thinking....

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 15 Nov 2019, 10:01pm

al_yrpal wrote:Guess what I'm thinking....

Al

You need to go out and get some more mushrooms?

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 15 Nov 2019, 10:14pm

kwackers wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:Guess what I'm thinking....

Al

You need to go out and get some more mushrooms?

Steady on,I think he's had enough already :roll: :wink:
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Cugel
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cugel » 15 Nov 2019, 10:23pm

al_yrpal wrote:Just focussing on negative aspects of everything just leaves one bitter and twisted... Focussing on positive things helps one and everyone else move onward and upwards. Guess what I'm thinking....

Al


You are Dr Pangloss and I claim my tin of white paint for the painting of the coal heaps before The Queen comes! Or are you that Pollyanna of The Glad Books......?

Anyroadup. I will recommend your voting strategy to all the people who are homeless, going to the food bank or waiting in vain for their NHS treatment. "Al says vote Tory and something may trickle down". Somehow I feel they may find your voting choice somewhat bizarre. But then a turkey is a bizarre creature, when you consider the look onit.

Cugel, reminding you that Christmas is coming.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 15 Nov 2019, 10:34pm

Cugel wrote:..... "Al says vote Tory and something may trickle down". ...

It'll be urine from neolibralists piddling on the rest of us from the battlements of their fortified castles :roll:

Note; I've yet to see any argument by Al to hold water,I think I know why now :wink:
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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Nov 2019, 11:16pm

Lot of the folk coming into the night shelter are on the mushrooms. Thing of the moment, but I havent sampled any.. Cugel sounds like he is on them permanently :lol:

Lets be clear I am voting for Brexit and the least worst alternative. Vote Labour, you wont get Brexit, you will get a run on the pound, economic collapse and industrial and public sector chaos just like we had in the 70s.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby francovendee » 16 Nov 2019, 6:10am

al_yrpal wrote:Just focussing on negative aspects of everything just leaves one bitter and twisted... Focussing on positive things helps one and everyone else move onward and upwards. Guess what I'm thinking....

Al

You could say this about the view of the EU held by leavers.

Oldjohnw
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Oldjohnw » 16 Nov 2019, 8:07am

al_yrpal wrote:Lets be clear I am voting for Brexit and the least worst alternative. Vote Labour, you wont get Brexit, you will get a run on the pound, economic collapse and industrial and public sector chaos just like we had in the 70s.

Al


You mean like is already happening?
John

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 16 Nov 2019, 8:17am

al_yrpal wrote:Its such a shame that so many people have such low confidence in our ability to govern ourselves. But its principally them that want to remain as puppets of the EU.

Anyway.. onwards and upwards

Al


And, yet again:

al_yrpal wrote:As usual not one fact, just a bunch of unsubstantiated assertions and slurs