** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 16 Nov 2019, 12:00pm

reohn2 wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:
al_yrpal wrote: Vote Labour, you wont get Brexit, you will get a run on the pound, economic collapse and industrial and public sector chaos just like we had in the 70s.

Al

A run on the pound?
For 1400 pages you have extolled the BENEFITS of a WEAK pound. Numerous times.

But now you suddenly see it as a bad thing?......


The wind blows the leaves up and down the street,
First this way then that.
The wind blows wherever it chooses,
And the leaves rustle along with it.....


Yes, slightly weaker was great. Helped our competitiveness wasnt that bad for consumers, very annoying for expat pensioners and holidaymakers, but, a run on the pound will be something else. Be very afraid because the banksters will have a field day shorting everything and it will be very painful indeed. Can you control banksters in Paris, Frankfurt, Hong Kong and NYC, no.....Exchange controls once again, doubt few remember those...

What we have now isnt anything like the 1970s, its not even close.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 16 Nov 2019, 12:45pm

al_yrpal wrote:Yes, slightly weaker was great. Helped our competitiveness wasnt that bad for consumers, very annoying for expat pensioners and holidaymakers, but, a run on the pound will be something else. Be very afraid because the banksters will have a field day shorting everything and it will be very painful indeed. Can you control banksters in Paris, Frankfurt, Hong Kong and NYC, no.....Exchange controls once again, doubt few remember those...

What we have now isnt anything like the 1970s, its not even close.

Al

It is more than "slightly weaker", especially since it was historically weak anyway even before the referendum.
In a decade it has practically halved against some strong currencies.

But you want your cake and eat it here. You always want to be right.
Yet your position is, I think, pretty confused and hypocritical and bears little or no relation to observable fact.

To rely on weakening a currency to maintain competitiveness instead of investing in infrastructure is the economics of a simpleton late of the "funny farm".

To some extent the banks you cite, Paris, Frankfurt, are controllable - ironically by the EU! And by us as Members of the same.

This weak pound is a massive driver of inflation, across the board.
It devalues EVERYTHING in Sterling from houses to antiques even stocks and shares and of course straight imports.
It is also a massive UK asset stripper. I would expect you to be concerned about that at least.
It does just the opposite of "take back control".

So it affects far more than the "expat pensioners and holidaymakers" you so quickly dismiss.

It is mildly interesting that since Boris's lackluster performances and that newly Labour have been making a better fist of a campaign (their poll ratings are a little improved) the Pound actually rallied a little.
On your assessment the opposite would have taken place?

I think (IMHO) should a Corbyn Govt get elected then the Pound will perhaps drop a tad (as R.Mogg et al desperately shift some dosh from a tax take) but then afterwards will rally quite strongly. For much of what Labour have proposed so far was broadly welcomed by many sectors.
Certainly a refreshing change from tired (and totally failed) old Tory "balance the books" lies.

Mind you, I never ever saw an election where so much money apparently appeared out of thin air -so quickly!! It's almost eye-watering!!

Labour seem the more honest about how they will raise it though.
Now where's that report about Russian interference. :shock:

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Cugel
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cugel » 16 Nov 2019, 1:07pm

reohn2 wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
al_yrpal wrote:Its such a shame that so many people have such low confidence in our ability to govern ourselves. But its principally them that want to remain as puppets of the EU.

Anyway.. onwards and upwards

Al

Roll on Brexit.
At least they'll be something different for you stayers to moan about.
So there are only crooks in the Tory party they don't exist in the Labour Party at all?.


When are you going to put an argument,any argument,for Brexit forward?


Oh, There are no gays in Russia

What is that supposed to even mean?


Perhaps Mr Natural (not Crumb's Mr Natural - if only HE were a poster here) is admiring the Tory Party suborning by Putin bribe and (probably) blackmail because Putin does not allow the gay folk in Mother Russia and this is a policy the Tories might revive? Well, that's how it reads although what NA actually means (if anything) is anyone's guess. He tends to blame his voice-to-print software but I'm afraid it's his wetware that may be a bit buggy, flakey and otherwise prone to make the gaffes. :-)

Cugel

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2019, 1:12pm

al_yrpal wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:A run on the pound?
For 1400 pages you have extolled the BENEFITS of a WEAK pound. Numerous times.

But now you suddenly see it as a bad thing?......


The wind blows the leaves up and down the street,
First this way then that.
The wind blows wherever it chooses,
And the leaves rustle along with it.....


Yes, slightly weaker was great. Helped our competitiveness wasnt that bad for consumers, very annoying for expat pensioners and holidaymakers, but, a run on the pound will be something else. Be very afraid because the banksters will have a field day shorting everything and it will be very painful indeed. Can you control banksters in Paris, Frankfurt, Hong Kong and NYC, no.....Exchange controls once again, doubt few remember those...


Al

Do you think the Tories are concerned about controlling the the bankers in the UK?
They've been receiving donations from Russian oligarchs for goodness sake man!
£1.2m from one alone,who was a fomer Kremlin minister!

Please watch this video and weep:- https://youtu.be/jZYR7n2gpOU

What we have now isnt anything like the 1970s, its not even close


You keep banging on about the '70's,this country is still reeling from the 2008 recession which was caused by the very people and their ilk(including Tony Blair)that caused it and who have held the country back since.
Whilst other EU countries invested in their infrastructure this bunch of selfseeking hypocrites did the opposite.
Mark my words,it will get a lot worse outside the EU before it ever gets better.

And please oh,please,don't start again on how unpatriotic remainers are,it's because we are patriotic that we wish to remain secure or as secure as can be with a bunch of silver spoon fed public schoolboy idiots running the show for there own amusement as they cuddle up to the likes of Donald Trump and his sickly regeme,as the homeless pile up on our streets and the NHS,education and infrastructure takes a nosedive.

THESE PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM NOT THE SOLUTION
Last edited by reohn2 on 16 Nov 2019, 1:48pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Cunobelin
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Nov 2019, 1:16pm

Interesting IPSOS_ MORI poll on attitudes to the LGBT Community

Image

There is also other evidence supporting concerns about Brexit and its effects

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 16 Nov 2019, 1:30pm

Cunobelin wrote:Interesting IPSOS_ MORI poll on attitudes to the LGBT Community

Image

There is also other evidence supporting concerns about Brexit and its effects


Johnson refers to gays as "bumboys". Doubtless his target audience will approve.

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2019, 1:30pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:Yes, slightly weaker was great. Helped our competitiveness wasnt that bad for consumers, very annoying for expat pensioners and holidaymakers, but, a run on the pound will be something else. Be very afraid because the banksters will have a field day shorting everything and it will be very painful indeed. Can you control banksters in Paris, Frankfurt, Hong Kong and NYC, no.....Exchange controls once again, doubt few remember those...

What we have now isnt anything like the 1970s, its not even close.

Al

It is more than "slightly weaker", especially since it was historically weak anyway even before the referendum.
In a decade it has practically halved against some strong currencies.

But you want your cake and eat it here. You always want to be right.
Yet your position is, I think, pretty confused and hypocritical and bears little or no relation to observable fact.

To rely on weakening a currency to maintain competitiveness instead of investing in infrastructure is the economics of a simpleton late of the "funny farm".

To some extent the banks you cite, Paris, Frankfurt, are controllable - ironically by the EU! And by us as Members of the same.

This weak pound is a massive driver of inflation, across the board.
It devalues EVERYTHING in Sterling from houses to antiques even stocks and shares and of course straight imports.
It is also a massive UK asset stripper. I would expect you to be concerned about that at least.
It does just the opposite of "take back control".

So it affects far more than the "expat pensioners and holidaymakers" you so quickly dismiss.

It is mildly interesting that since Boris's lackluster performances and that newly Labour have been making a better fist of a campaign (their poll ratings are a little improved) the Pound actually rallied a little.
On your assessment the opposite would have taken place?

I think (IMHO) should a Corbyn Govt get elected then the Pound will perhaps drop a tad (as R.Mogg et al desperately shift some dosh from a tax take) but then afterwards will rally quite strongly. For much of what Labour have proposed so far was broadly welcomed by many sectors.
Certainly a refreshing change from tired (and totally failed) old Tory "balance the books" lies.

Mind you, I never ever saw an election where so much money apparently appeared out of thin air -so quickly!! It's almost eye-watering!!

Labour seem the more honest about how they will raise it though.
Now where's that report about Russian interference. :shock:

I posted my reply before reading this post,but thanks for it.
And yes where indeed is the report about Russian influence the the government has been sitting on since May(the month and the previous PM)?
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kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 16 Nov 2019, 1:38pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:Yes, slightly weaker was great. Helped our competitiveness wasnt that bad for consumers, very annoying for expat pensioners and holidaymakers, but, a run on the pound will be something else. Be very afraid because the banksters will have a field day shorting everything and it will be very painful indeed. Can you control banksters in Paris, Frankfurt, Hong Kong and NYC, no.....Exchange controls once again, doubt few remember those...

What we have now isnt anything like the 1970s, its not even close.

Al

It is more than "slightly weaker", especially since it was historically weak anyway even before the referendum.
In a decade it has practically halved against some strong currencies.

But you want your cake and eat it here. You always want to be right.
Yet your position is, I think, pretty confused and hypocritical and bears little or no relation to observable fact.
<snip>

Al's not a difficult person to understand.

He's obviously spent most of his life as some sort of middle manager, the sort of guy who has little control of either those under him or those above him.
Therefore in order to live with that he assumes that anything that happens whilst he's in that role is what he wanted and is because of rather than in spite of himself.

So as the world changes from his original predictions he follows it claiming that's what he expects anyway and anything that aligns with his views is "just right" and anyone proposing differently is "wrong".
If the tories proposed labours policies tomorrow they'd be "just right" for all sorts of made up reasons. Conversely any labour (or Trotsky if you prefer) policy would be wrong even if it was a tory policy implemented by them.

So there's nothing to understand about him other than having chosen his side they can do no wrong because they're his side and anything else is wrong because it isn't.
There's no point arguing detail because it's irrelevant to him because his side is right regardless and the detail will change to fit any damage/benefit they cause.

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2019, 1:47pm

My Mam used to have a saying "you can't tell anything to anyone who knows all"
I've met a few such people along life's way they've been from all strata of society but they all have one thing in common.Once something has taken root no matter how wrong it can't be shifted.
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pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 16 Nov 2019, 2:00pm

kwackers wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:Yes, slightly weaker was great. Helped our competitiveness wasnt that bad for consumers, very annoying for expat pensioners and holidaymakers, but, a run on the pound will be something else. Be very afraid because the banksters will have a field day shorting everything and it will be very painful indeed. Can you control banksters in Paris, Frankfurt, Hong Kong and NYC, no.....Exchange controls once again, doubt few remember those...

What we have now isnt anything like the 1970s, its not even close.

Al

It is more than "slightly weaker", especially since it was historically weak anyway even before the referendum.
In a decade it has practically halved against some strong currencies.

But you want your cake and eat it here. You always want to be right.
Yet your position is, I think, pretty confused and hypocritical and bears little or no relation to observable fact.
<snip>

Al's not a difficult person to understand.

He's obviously spent most of his life as some sort of middle manager, the sort of guy who has little control of either those under him or those above him.
Therefore in order to live with that he assumes that anything that happens whilst he's in that role is what he wanted and is because of rather than in spite of himself.

So as the world changes from his original predictions he follows it claiming that's what he expects anyway and anything that aligns with his views is "just right" and anyone proposing differently is "wrong".
If the tories proposed labours policies tomorrow they'd be "just right" for all sorts of made up reasons. Conversely any labour (or Trotsky if you prefer) policy would be wrong even if it was a tory policy implemented by them.

So there's nothing to understand about him other than having chosen his side they can do no wrong because they're his side and anything else is wrong because it isn't.
There's no point arguing detail because it's irrelevant to him because his side is right regardless and the detail will change to fit any damage/benefit they cause.


Personally I think you're being a bit unfair to Al.

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 16 Nov 2019, 2:16pm

kwackers wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:Yes, slightly weaker was great. Helped our competitiveness wasnt that bad for consumers, very annoying for expat pensioners and holidaymakers, but, a run on the pound will be something else. Be very afraid because the banksters will have a field day shorting everything and it will be very painful indeed. Can you control banksters in Paris, Frankfurt, Hong Kong and NYC, no.....Exchange controls once again, doubt few remember those...

What we have now isnt anything like the 1970s, its not even close.

Al

It is more than "slightly weaker", especially since it was historically weak anyway even before the referendum.
In a decade it has practically halved against some strong currencies.

But you want your cake and eat it here. You always want to be right.
Yet your position is, I think, pretty confused and hypocritical and bears little or no relation to observable fact.
<snip>

Al's not a difficult person to understand.

He's obviously spent most of his life as some sort of middle manager, the sort of guy who has little control of either those under him or those above him.
Therefore in order to live with that he assumes that anything that happens whilst he's in that role is what he wanted and is because of rather than in spite of himself.

So as the world changes from his original predictions he follows it claiming that's what he expects anyway and anything that aligns with his views is "just right" and anyone proposing differently is "wrong".
If the tories proposed labours policies tomorrow they'd be "just right" for all sorts of made up reasons. Conversely any labour (or Trotsky if you prefer) policy would be wrong even if it was a tory policy implemented by them.

So there's nothing to understand about him other than having chosen his side they can do no wrong because they're his side and anything else is wrong because it isn't.
There's no point arguing detail because it's irrelevant to him because his side is right regardless and the detail will change to fit any damage/benefit they cause.


You are not even close! How does starting and running an innovative business running for 15 years fit in with that? Eventually employing many people, serving an international customer base, setting up regional and overseas agencies. Writing ground breaking software and selling it all over the world, and finally selling the business for a tidy sum on retirement. And by the way Chief Engineers arent usually middle managers positions. I held that title for 15 years finally as a Director in my earlier career. Competent solid and innovative management is key to the success and longevity of Manufacturing Companies.

So much of the Remainer stuff asserted here isnt even worth commenting on, its so unbalanced and off the wall I often cant be bothered and just ignore it. I will refrain from spelling out what I think of you but rest assured it isnt in the least complimentary. Its a pity that you arent mature and tolerant enough to appreciate that everyone has the right to hold a different point of view.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 16 Nov 2019, 2:19pm

kwackers wrote:Snip snip
So there's nothing to understand about him other than having chosen his side they can do no wrong because they're his side and anything else is wrong because it isn't.
There's no point arguing detail because it's irrelevant to him because his side is right regardless and the detail will change to fit any damage/benefit they cause.

I think 'tis a little harsh perhaps?
(but loved the mushroom gag!!)

I have been really quite frustrated and cross with him a couple of times, and he doubtless with me.(edit. See above post that slipped inbetween :shock: )

But he's not unintelligent that's for sure and I have tried to understand his view. Isolationist that it is.

At least he sometimes writes something more than "wetware" (had never heard it before :lol: ) deficient stuff.
He is also well travelled and shrewd and I respect that, for his perspective is not narrow.

What I don't understand is that he is so dogmatically negative about Brussels and its members.
It's not perfect- that's a given - but I would personally like to see is stay at the round table and negotiate with the power of the Referendum result as bargaining chip.
((I actually think that's what Johnson actually wanted originally in the Referendum. But his bed is now made and he must lie ( no pun int) on it))

Overall our membership has been of enormous benefit to the UK. IMV.
I have listed what I see as those benefits too many times. Tediously so.
And those other Brussels members are actually some of the most cultured and tolerant nations on earth. It is a pleasure to be aligned and belong within them.
They add as a group something rather fine, laudable and upstanding to a Trumpian World much debased.

Our own present Govt. starts to compare somewhat unfavourably and I just cannot understand how Al can prefer them to the better valued (IMV) EU.

So I sometimes (when commitments or illness permit) like to try and take time to debate upon specific issues.
I am not clever or knowledgeable about some of this stuff, but you know what, I know when I smell a rat and Brexit is just that. And a big one too.

kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 16 Nov 2019, 3:20pm

al_yrpal wrote:So much of the Remainer stuff asserted here isnt even worth commenting on, its so unbalanced and off the wall I often cant be bothered and just ignore it. I will refrain from spelling out what I think of you but rest assured it isnt in the least complimentary. Its a pity that you arent mature and tolerant enough to appreciate that everyone has the right to hold a different point of view.

Al

Even as a "trot" I appreciate everyone has a right to a different view.

What I don't understand is why your viewpoint continually shifts with the prevailing wind.
You seem to simply align your compass with the giants like BoJo for reasons only you can answer because you refuse to justify them.

Thanks for filling me in on your actual job - perhaps you'd like to point me in the direction of your company or this great software you wrote so I can make an independent judgement on just how "groundbreaking and innovative" it was/is? (You'll forgive me if I don't take your word for it).

Not sure where you dug out "chief engineer" from - what sort of term is that even? Never heard anyone called a "chief engineer" before.
Loco driving perhaps?

As for spelling out what you think of me, I guess you think I or other people can't read the real meaning in your posts?
You've made it fairly obvious what you think of me and other remainers/trots in this thread right from the beginning.
I can't claim any differently myself, I'm a person that likes to see justification when someone makes a statement and you provide none, therefore I find it hard to have respect for either you or your position.
With that in mind "isn't worth commenting on" just doesn't cut it.
You're happy to make "bitey" little comments about pretty much anything but can't be bothered explaining yourself. What does that tell folk about you?
I'd suggest it tells them that you prefer to be nasty and dismissive rather than engage in an actual discussion, perhaps having to think about your position is hard for you because written down it starts to sound a bit crap and conflicting?

briansnail
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Brexit thread-publish the Intelligence report

Postby briansnail » 16 Nov 2019, 3:40pm

The problem with Brexit is the number of strands. Everyone is right and everyone wrong. What is clearly wrong is a blunt refusal to publish the Intelligence report on possible involvement by Foreign powers to influence Brexit. Reading between the lines there probably was I am guessing Russian involvement.After all its what all intelligence agencies do .They all regard it a good clean fun.
Russia might be backing the wrong card here. They have a implicit assumption that a weak NATO and EU is not detrimental to its safety but essential.An alternative analysis might point to dismantling the EU (via Brexit) and a weak NATO will lead breakaway countries to feel vulnerable. They will beef up defence. This presents Russia with a headache . To be dominant or keep parity in weaponry .They in turn would be forced to upscale their defence systems. Very expensive.
The second point is it like committees. To stall things immediately set one up. An EU which does not unravel will debate and dither. A breakaway country will thump the table in unstable situations and demand immediate action.

reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2019, 4:01pm

al_yrpal wrote:. .......So much of the Remainer stuff asserted here isnt even worth commenting on, its so unbalanced and off the wall I often cant be bothered and just ignore it......

Al

All through this thread you've been challenged by sound and solid argument with links to sound opinions from experts in their field of what Brexit means for the UK.
Your response has been wild claims of the EU being part of a Franco/German conspiracy to rule the world amongst other outlandish claims,the latest of which is that our contributions to the EU being spent on the:-
Brussels/Strasbourg gravy train and Junkers wine fridge, subsidising inefficient German strip farmers, cheating Italians and various other dodgy EU causes

And that the EU are
legislating against our industries


You claim to have spelled your stance out has being a sound one yet you've not once spelled it out or provided sound argument of your stance when challenged that's stood up to scrutiny
That's when you are not calling anyone who would ally themselves with the Labour Party or has anything like a left wing stance as being "Trots"
Trots in Al world as being what?
Anti UK Reds under the bed?
Yet it's the rightwing Tories who provide a safe haven for Russian oligarchs and accept £1.2m from one such oligarch,I hope you listened to the YouTube discussion about the problem and how you Tory friends have been sitting on the report into the problem.

A few pages ago you were challenged by Vorpal to try and explain how long you might think the UK would suffer after leaving the Eu before things got better,once again you didn't even offer an aknowledgement let alone an answer.

It's been a constant in your posts on this thread,you don't like the EU and want to leave that I can accept but not with lack of sound argument you consistently don't put forward.

As for your backing of the Tories,in light of everything else you've posted along with a stock Tory refrain of the country being dragged back to the '70's under a Labour government I draw my own conclusions.
Your argument is without merit or substance,end of.
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