** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[Cugel]

this prime minister is, for all his talk of get Brexit done

The trashy slogan does contain some element of truth though, we certainly will get done if it happens, done up like a kipper.

I wonder why the Lib Dems don't use a counter-slogan "We'll get Brexit dumped" ...now that really does have a trashcan ring to it.

The kipper (one of which I gobbled this morning for breakfast) is never "done up" in fact. Rather it is slit open (when a luckless herring) then cooked in a very undone state, its innards removed with the sharp knife of a fishwife who then splays out its carcass for the smouldering oak to baste.

Where does the "done up like a kipper" phrase come from? Perhaps some kipper eaters think the spine&ribs are some sort of zip?

Anyroadup, I ate that kipper this morning and rived out its spine, pulled off its head and generally dismembered it (if herring can be said to have members). 'Twas delicious, especially with the grilled tomatoes.

****
What would a kippered BoJo be like? Not much spine. Probably won't taste so good. More like a lamprey of the type that chews the flesh off other fish.

Cugel

[Debs]

Where does the "done up like a kipper" phrase come from?

I think it means done up like a UKipper?

[Pastychomper]

I don't think that the arguments are even at all.

supporters of brexit, both here and in the wider community, frequently speak of wanting to make our own laws and not being ruled from Brussels but never, repeat never, give a single example of which laws we can't make. Similarly, the current leave politicians, just as at the time of the referendum, make untrue claim after claim such as Gove regarding trees and the NHS and immigrants.

Nothing changes.

I'm not sure that's fair, weren't there some discussions of fishing and tarrif quotas earlier in this megathread?

For a couple of other examples, how about a law to reduce the standard rate of VAT to less than 15%? Or a law to allow me to rely on the (customisable) cookie settings on my browser (as I did happily for years) instead of having an explicit pop-up on every new web site I visit?

I know neither of these are particularly terrible examples (although I think VAT disproportionately afflicts the poorest), but both have come to my attention recently enough to still be in my buffer when I read the question.

More to the point, one of them was previously decided on a national level, and the other on an individual level. Trusting the EU government to decide both implies that (a) the same rule will be equally beneficial across the EU's entire jurisdiction, (b) the EU government is at least as good as each nation or individual at deciding what is best in that case, and (c) future EU governments will also make the "right" decision more often than national governments or individuals.

I suspect that (b) and (c) in particular are areas where leavers and remainers will tend to disagree.

[Audax67]

What would a kippered BoJo be like?

Cugel

Much like any other kippered Johnson, I should think.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Along the he same lines another party could use the slogan " Brexit get over it"

[Cugel]

Where does the "done up like a kipper" phrase come from?

I think it means done up like a UKipper?

A startling sight, that!

I suppose we must recognise that the Tory Party has been kippered - Ukippered to be exact. Farago blew his fag smoke in their faces and they immediately adopted his queer spiv mode. Mind, the Tories were always shot-through with spivs of various kinds, as a history of their beaking and even incarceration will tell. A long history of Tory spiving there is! One or three became Ukippers in fact.

But I digress.

Apparently the Aussies once referred to British immigrants as kippers: "...two-faced and got no guts". They extrapolated this opinion to all Brits, including those still back in Britland not yet Oz immigrants despite it only costing ten pound notes at the time.

It's an apt description of BoJo the Klown, certainly. And of all the other evil klowns in his cabinet of curios.

Cugel

[reohn2]

Hi,
Along the he same lines another party could use the slogan " Brexit get over it"

And just how long do you think it'll take the UK to "get over" it?

[Mick F]

How long do you think this forum will take to get over it?

Over 1,400 pages so far.

[100%JR]

Hi,
Along the he same lines another party could use the slogan " Brexit get over it"

And just how long do you think it'll take the UK to "get over" it?

IF it happens,and I still think it's a big if,I suspect most posters on here will be dead and buried long before the UK "got over it" if it ever did at all

[pete75]

I don't think that the arguments are even at all.

supporters of brexit, both here and in the wider community, frequently speak of wanting to make our own laws and not being ruled from Brussels but never, repeat never, give a single example of which laws we can't make. Similarly, the current leave politicians, just as at the time of the referendum, make untrue claim after claim such as Gove regarding trees and the NHS and immigrants.

Nothing changes.

I'm not sure that's fair, weren't there some discussions of fishing and tarrif quotas earlier in this megathread?

For a couple of other examples, how about a law to reduce the standard rate of VAT to less than 15%? Or a law to allow me to rely on the (customisable) cookie settings on my browser (as I did happily for years) instead of having an explicit pop-up on every new web site I visit?

I know neither of these are particularly terrible examples (although I think VAT disproportionately afflicts the poorest), but both have come to my attention recently enough to still be in my buffer when I read the question.

More to the point, one of them was previously decided on a national level, and the other on an individual level. Trusting the EU government to decide both implies that (a) the same rule will be equally beneficial across the EU's entire jurisdiction, (b) the EU government is at least as good as each nation or individual at deciding what is best in that case, and (c) future EU governments will also make the "right" decision more often than national governments or individuals.

I suspect that (b) and (c) in particular are areas where leavers and remainers will tend to disagree.

The level of VAT is set by the UK government not the EU. That's why there are different rates in different EU countries. The Tories introduced it at 10% under Heath, the Labour reduced it to 8% under Wilson, Mrs Thatchers raised it to 15%, the Tories under Major raised it again to 17.5% and then under Cameron to 20% where it remains.
Vat does disproportionately affect the poorest, why do you think the Wilson government reduced it shortly after gaining office and the Thatcher government almost doubled it within weeks of being elected. What chance do you think there is that a Tory government under Johnson will reduce it?

[Mick F]

VAT.
One of the most regressive taxes on the planet.
No wonder we have food banks.

If it were up to me, I'd abolish it completely and immediately, and use income tax to compensate.

[PDQ Mobile]

I'm not sure that's fair, weren't there some discussions of fishing and tarrif quotas earlier in this megathread?

For a couple of other examples, how about a law to reduce the standard rate of VAT to less than 15%? Or a law to allow me to rely on the (customisable) cookie settings on my browser (as I did happily for years) instead of having an explicit pop-up on every new web site I visit?
.

As I understand it (and I am not a computer buff) it was the EU legislation (agreed by all members of course)that introduced the statutory policy that setting cookies on a device required the operator of that device's permission.
That was not formally the case.
And it was a welcome piece of EU legislation.

Cookies had become ever more sophisticated and intrusive.

My older iphone allows "no cookies" to be set.
It sometimes affects certain sites but mostly has little impact.

Newer devices seem less user friendly in this regard. I guess it's a manufacturer/software writer thing.

But refusal to accept cookies remains a right enshined in EU legislation AFAIK.
Others are surely more expert.

[Mick F]

I delete my cookies after leaving the websites.

[Pastychomper]

The level of VAT is set by the UK government not the EU. That's why there are different rates in different EU countries. The Tories introduced it at 10% under Heath, the Labour reduced it to 8% under Wilson, Mrs Thatchers raised it to 15%, the Tories under Major raised it again to 17.5% and then under Cameron to 20% where it remains.
Vat does disproportionately affect the poorest, why do you think the Wilson government reduced it shortly after gaining office and the Thatcher government almost doubled it within weeks of being elected. What chance do you think there is that a Tory government under Johnson will reduce it?

According to the link buried in my post, under EU law the standard rate of VAT "cannot be less than 15%."
Here it is again: https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/t ... dex_en.htm

If I've misunderstood that, I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

I fully agree that the Tories are unlikely ever to reduce VAT, even within the limits available. FWIW one of the few things I liked about Blair's government (which I still think of as red Tories) was their temporary reduction of it to the minimum 15%.

[pete75]

The level of VAT is set by the UK government not the EU. That's why there are different rates in different EU countries. The Tories introduced it at 10% under Heath, the Labour reduced it to 8% under Wilson, Mrs Thatchers raised it to 15%, the Tories under Major raised it again to 17.5% and then under Cameron to 20% where it remains.
Vat does disproportionately affect the poorest, why do you think the Wilson government reduced it shortly after gaining office and the Thatcher government almost doubled it within weeks of being elected. What chance do you think there is that a Tory government under Johnson will reduce it?

According to the link buried in my post, under EU law the standard rate of VAT "cannot be less than 15%."
Here it is again: https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/t ... dex_en.htm

If I've misunderstood that, I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

I fully agree that the Tories are unlikely ever to reduce VAT, even within the limits available. FWIW one of the few things I liked about Blair's government (which I still think of as red Tories) was their temporary reduction of it to the minimum 15%.

If the EU won't let VAT go below 15% that could be a benefit of leaving though fat chance of it happening. The only advantage I can see of leaving is the ability to dump the metric system and go back to feet, inches, gallons thou, ft lbs etc. Doubt it'll happen though.