** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 15 Jan 2020, 2:25pm



Most of the sort of right leaning folk who support Brexit think the USA and Trump are wonderful. They will see nothing wrong in being told what to to do by Mr Trump.

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Jan 2020, 2:27pm

Factually Miss Widdicombes summation was spot on. But her assertion that betrayal caused the recent Brexit referendum result is speculative. I believe there were many more negatives to EU membership that added up to produce the Leave result.

Younger people are probably unaware of the factors that encouraged us to vote to remain back in the 70s. A war and its aftermath of austerity many times worse than anyone experiences in the UK now.. Rationing a recent memory. The balance of payments crisis, devaluation. A smarting belligerant De Gaulle repeating Non! constantly.

The sources of information about joining what was called THE COMMON MARKET for the public were very few and controlled by a desperate government. Government pamphlets, newspapers, radio and TV, NO INTERNET, TWITTER OR FACEBOOK. We voted for a better standard of living by closely aligning with adjacent countrys to trade, no mention of ever closer political Union whatsover. It was just a COMMON MARKET!

So easy to judge those times by todays standards.

I think she was enjoying telling the EU why we are leaving. They obviously didnt enjoy it.

So easy to fling insults at news, no come back from the mods...

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 15 Jan 2020, 3:12pm

al_yrpal wrote:Factually Miss Widdicombes summation was spot on. But her assertion that betrayal caused the recent Brexit referendum result is speculative. I believe there were many more negatives to EU membership that added up to produce the Leave result.

Younger people are probably unaware of the factors that encouraged us to vote to remain back in the 70s. A war and its aftermath of austerity many times worse than anyone experiences in the UK now.. Rationing a recent memory. The balance of payments crisis, devaluation. A smarting belligerant De Gaulle repeating Non! constantly.

The sources of information about joining what was called THE COMMON MARKET for the public were very few and controlled by a desperate government. Government pamphlets, newspapers, radio and TV, NO INTERNET, TWITTER OR FACEBOOK. We voted for a better standard of living by closely aligning with adjacent countrys to trade, no mention of ever closer political Union whatsover. It was just a COMMON MARKET!

So easy to judge those times by todays standards.

I think she was enjoying telling the EU why we are leaving. They obviously didnt enjoy it.

So easy to fling insults at news, no come back from the mods...

Al


As so often, the use of ALL CAPS usefully indicates a lack of factual accuracy. In reality, t was never just a Common Market (whatever that means) , we signed up to ever close union, as set out in the Treaty of Rome:

The 1957 Treaty Establishing the European Community contained the objective of “ever closer union” in the following words in the Preamble. In English this is: “Determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe …..”.


https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk ... y/CBP-7230

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Jan 2020, 4:04pm

You werent there, you dont know, lots of us were and we do know. There was nothing about any treaty it was just signing up to the Governments question....

"Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?"

Is that clear enough, the use of Common Market says it was. It was for all of us that voted yes.

We were not all Poundshop Lawyers we were just ordinary folk deliberately mislead.

Anyway, that mistake on our part is about to be corrected and by the end of this year we will be out :D

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 15 Jan 2020, 4:25pm

al_yrpal wrote:You werent there, you dont know, lots of us were and we do know. There was nothing about any treaty it was just signing up to the Governments question....

"Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?"

Is that clear enough, the use of Common Market says it was. It was for all of us that voted yes.

We were not all Poundshop Lawyers we were just ordinary folk deliberately mislead.

Anyway, that mistake on our part is about to be corrected and by the end of this year we will be out :D

Al


"deliberately mislead" is funny. Hope you're enjoying the easiest negotiation ever, four years in and counting...

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Jan 2020, 5:22pm

Why do you think its funny? The referendum was a serious question and as it turned out it had huge implications. Referendum questions should be simple and clear so that they can be easily understood by everyone, not just lawyers. In the event the question was misleading. If we give the government of the day the benefit of the doubt perhaps they werent aware of what was going to happen and its implications for our jobs, justice system, democracy and sovereignty? The British public were deliberately mislead by both governments. Another product of that awful decade that the Labour Party still want us to return to.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 15 Jan 2020, 5:28pm

al_yrpal wrote:Why do you think its funny? The referendum was a serious question and as it turned out it had huge implications. Referendum questions should be simple and clear so that they can be easily understood by everyone, not just lawyers. In the event the question was misleading. If we give the government of the day the benefit of the doubt perhaps they werent aware of what was going to happen and its implications for our jobs, justice system, democracy and sovereignty? The British public were deliberately mislead by both governments. Another product of that awful decade that the Labour Party still want us to return to.

Al


It's funny given how the NHS is thriving on its weekly £350 million following the easiest negotiation ever.

It's even funnier given your jobs "implications".

And of course, if you didn't laugh you'd cry.

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 15 Jan 2020, 5:35pm

al_yrpal wrote:You werent there, you dont know, lots of us were and we do know. There was nothing about any treaty it was just signing up to the Governments question....

"Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?"

Is that clear enough, the use of Common Market says it was. It was for all of us that voted yes.

We were not all Poundshop Lawyers we were just ordinary folk deliberately mislead.

Anyway, that mistake on our part is about to be corrected and by the end of this year we will be out :D

Al


But what if leaving proves to be a mistake? What then Al?

fishfright
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby fishfright » 15 Jan 2020, 5:50pm

pete75 wrote:e]

But what if leaving proves to be a mistake? What then Al?


Every leave support I've talked to (a hell of a lot) is convinced that any down side will not apply to them but only to the " Undeserving" poor/foreigner/incorrect melanin level etc etc

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Jan 2020, 5:57pm

pete75 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:You werent there, you dont know, lots of us were and we do know. There was nothing about any treaty it was just signing up to the Governments question....

"Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?"

Is that clear enough, the use of Common Market says it was. It was for all of us that voted yes.

We were not all Poundshop Lawyers we were just ordinary folk deliberately mislead.

Anyway, that mistake on our part is about to be corrected and by the end of this year we will be out :D

Al


But what if leaving proves to be a mistake? What then Al?


Simple Pete, we rejoin, they dont want us to leave. They will try to shaft us no doubt but they need us more than we need them. We could become the kernel of a different sort of European club and that scares them. All IMHO of course :D We'll see... Buckle your seat belt!

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 15 Jan 2020, 6:00pm

al_yrpal wrote:
pete75 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:You werent there, you dont know, lots of us were and we do know. There was nothing about any treaty it was just signing up to the Governments question....

"Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?"

Is that clear enough, the use of Common Market says it was. It was for all of us that voted yes.

We were not all Poundshop Lawyers we were just ordinary folk deliberately mislead.

Anyway, that mistake on our part is about to be corrected and by the end of this year we will be out :D

Al


But what if leaving proves to be a mistake? What then Al?


Simple Pete, we rejoin, they dont want us to leave. They will try to shaft us no doubt but they need us more than we need them. We could become the kernel of a different sort of European club and that scares them. All IMHO of course :D We'll see... Buckle your seat belt!

Al


Hmmm why do they need us more than we need them?

PDQ Mobile
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 15 Jan 2020, 6:07pm

Al-yrpal enjoyed years of being able to freely trade and work throughout the EU.
Tarif free import and export.

Now he's drawing his pension, no doubt boosted by the making of money at that earlier time, he wants to leave.
And deny that easy opportunity to the next generation. I think it's hypocritical.

As for Ms Widdecomb, it just all so unconstructive and negative.
Just a last bash, there is nothing else.
I wouldn't have sat and listened but rather gone to the bar with more intelligent and cultured company.
She'll soon be gone.

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 15 Jan 2020, 6:10pm

quote="fishfright"]
pete75 wrote:
But what if leaving proves to be a mistake? What then Al?


Every leave support I've talked to (a hell of a lot) is convinced that any down side will not apply to them but only to the " Undeserving" poor/foreigner/incorrect melanin level etc etc[/quote]

Yep I've got that impression from many I've talked to.
Some have also told me that because I've a European surname from past ancestry I'm not proper British and am taking a job and house away from someone who is proper British. They're more worthy of respect though than the vast majority of Brexiters who may well think it but dare not say it.
Last edited by pete75 on 15 Jan 2020, 6:22pm, edited 1 time in total.

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al_yrpal
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby al_yrpal » 15 Jan 2020, 6:16pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:Al-yrpal enjoyed years of being able to freely trade and work throughout the EU.
Tarif free import and export.

Now he's drawing his pension, no doubt boosted by the making of money at that earlier time, he wants to leave.
And deny that easy opportunity to the next generation. I think it's hypocritical.

As for Ms Widdecomb, it just all so unconstructive and negative.
Just a last bash, there is nothing else.
I wouldn't have sat and listened but rather gone to the bar with more intelligent and cultured company.
She'll soon be gone.


I am not denying anyone anything! We could do all those things before we joined the Common Market. One could argue that Remainers are denying me and others many freedoms right now. If the EU denies us anything its down to them not me or other Leavers. No need for all their redtape.

Hmmm why do they need us more than we need them?


Have a look at the balance of trade, our expertise and connections in security, and defence spending and expertise for a start...

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 15 Jan 2020, 6:26pm

al_yrpal wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:Al-yrpal enjoyed years of being able to freely trade and work throughout the EU.
Tarif free import and export.

Now he's drawing his pension, no doubt boosted by the making of money at that earlier time, he wants to leave.
And deny that easy opportunity to the next generation. I think it's hypocritical.

As for Ms Widdecomb, it just all so unconstructive and negative.
Just a last bash, there is nothing else.
I wouldn't have sat and listened but rather gone to the bar with more intelligent and cultured company.
She'll soon be gone.


I am not denying anyone anything! We could do all those things before we joined the Common Market. One could argue that Remainers are denying me and others many freedoms right now. If the EU denies us anything its down to them not me or other Leavers. No need for all their redtape.

Al

Rubbish. There wasn't tariff free import and export nor were we able to move freely to settle and work anywhere in Europe. The EU is not denying us anything. We're leaving a club so we don't get the same things as we did as a member.