** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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meic
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by meic »

I'll put my neck on the line and lay the blame on instigating a referendum with the sole purpose of avoiding conflict within the Tory party, regardless of the consequence to the country.

It would be nice to blame the Tory party and David Cameron but he would have just being doing a King Canute by not allowing the referendum.
UKIP were "out of the bottle" and the people could no longer be ignored on this issue, both leavers and those of us remainers who mistakenly believed we were the majority and it was worth a referendum to bring an end to this incessant EU obsessing.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by roubaixtuesday »

It's interesting that you regard statements from the official remain campaign as binding but not those from the official leave campaign.

Given that leave won, that's remarkable.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by roubaixtuesday »

to bring an end to this incessant EU obsessing.


You've got to admit, that's pretty funny.

It didn't seem to occur to anyone on the leave side that leaving would involve a highly complex negotiation which would span years if not decades of obsessing over every detail of our relationship with the EU?

Hilarious.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Actually I object to being called graceless.
I have a passionate belief in Europe and I decided to argue the case for it in my simple way.
That remains my democratic right. And that is healthy for society too in my view.
By and large the debate on here has been polite and graceful.
Passionionate yes but within bounds.

We have now lost Farage Johnson Davies.
Little concrete agrument for leaving has been put forward IMV. Just the old "take back control" mantra.
As Brian Fox pointed out,leaving may well perversly have the opposite effect in many areas.
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meic
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by meic »

It's interesting that you regard statements from the official remain campaign as binding but not those from the official leave campaign.

Given that leave won, that's remarkable.



Hardly remarkable.
He was the Prime Minister and he did call the referendum.
Possibly I shouldnt refer to him as head of remain though, as he made these statements in an official government release prior to the starting gun being fired.

So I will say this is the option that our Prime Minister presented the country with and is from a position far greater than any member or leader of any referendum campaigning group, even though he later moved into that role.
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meic
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by meic »

BrianFox wrote:
to bring an end to this incessant EU obsessing.


You've got to admit, that's pretty funny.

It didn't seem to occur to anyone on the leave side that leaving would involve a highly complex negotiation which would span years if not decades of obsessing over every detail of our relationship with the EU?

Hilarious.


It is pretty funny but the joke is on the likes of me who thought that we would win the referendum and shut the leavers up. While I can see the funny side and laugh at my mistake, the leavers had the real laugh, laughing at our mistake.

I am sure some Leave voters did consider the very point that you made and lots more thought we just hand in our membership card and leave. I am sure that they put all the blame for the procrastination at the foot of the remain die-hards, I cant see good grounds to argue against them.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by thirdcrank »

Meantime, the EU negotiators are proving what a lot of jolly rotten types they are by not acceding to our every requirement - even though we don't seem to have been able to set out what we require.
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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Mick F »

Cyril Haearn wrote:Nobody thought The People would vote to leave
Nobody?

I would have been amazed - nay, astounded - if the vote was for Remain.
I considered it a foregone conclusion, and I'm not the only one.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mr bajokoses »

The blame rests firmly with the leave campaigners who lied about how simple leaving would be, and the benefits of doing so.

They should be the target of leave voters' anger.

Leavers own this sorry mess 100 per cent. It has absolutely nothing to do with remain voters.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Mick F wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Nobody thought The People would vote to leave
Nobody?

I would have been amazed - nay, astounded - if the vote was for Remain.
I considered it a foregone conclusion, and I'm not the only one.

I never dreamed the vote would be to leave, otherwise the whole thing would have been forgotten by now

There was really no need for a referendum at all
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by stu1102 »

Just some random thoughts..

When I journey back to my fathers village in Scotland there is rising seething almost disdain for the leaders of the leave campaign so much so that I would guestimate Scotland will be out of the Union within the next 6 years if the feeling is my fathers village is a measure

I think the referundum has let the genie out of the bottle for all intents and purposes and for me and my family this does not feel like a country that I would wish to live in for the rest of my life, I never believed in Scotland seperating out of the Union but now I firmly do

I dont believe a significant % of the people that voted leave did so becuase they were anti-Eu per se I think it was something more fundamental about England itself
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Cyril Haearn »

stu1102 wrote:Just some random thoughts..

When I journey back to my fathers village in Scotland there is rising seething almost disdain for the leaders of the leave campaign so much so that I would guestimate Scotland will be out of the Union within the next 6 years if the feeling is my fathers village is a measure

I think the referundum has let the genie out of the bottle for all intents and purposes and for me and my family this does not feel like a country that I would wish to live in for the rest of my life, I never believed in Scotland seperating out of the Union but now I firmly do

I dont believe a significant % of the people that voted leave did so becuase they were anti-Eu per se I think it was something more fundamental about England itself

What about urban Scotland?
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by pwa »

stu1102 wrote:Just some random thoughts..

When I journey back to my fathers village in Scotland there is rising seething almost disdain for the leaders of the leave campaign so much so that I would guestimate Scotland will be out of the Union within the next 6 years if the feeling is my fathers village is a measure

I think the referundum has let the genie out of the bottle for all intents and purposes and for me and my family this does not feel like a country that I would wish to live in for the rest of my life, I never believed in Scotland seperating out of the Union but now I firmly do

I dont believe a significant % of the people that voted leave did so becuase they were anti-Eu per se I think it was something more fundamental about England itself


And Wales I suppose.
I get the same sick feeling at the thought of being kept in the EU. So where do we go from here? Calling each other names (not you) isn't going to help the rift to heal, and the never ending sulk that some folk wallow in is just self-indulgence. We need leaders with answers that go some way to meeting some of the wants and aspirations of both sides. Corbyn and May both hint at that, hampered by people with extreme views within their parties.
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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Mick F »

Cyril Haearn wrote:
Mick F wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Nobody thought The People would vote to leave
Nobody?

I would have been amazed - nay, astounded - if the vote was for Remain.
I considered it a foregone conclusion, and I'm not the only one.

I never dreamed the vote would be to leave, otherwise the whole thing would have been forgotten by now

There was really no need for a referendum at all
Oh yes there was! :shock:
Leave leave leave leave.
We shouldn't have joined in the first place and a referendum asked the population, and the majority of the population wanted to leave.

Sorry if that upsets the people who wanted to remain, but I'd have just shrugged my shoulders if the vote had gone the other way.
Why can't the people who were on the losing side just shrug their shoulders and accept it?
Why are the people who wanted to remain going on and on about it?
Mick F. Cornwall
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Broadly speaking too much to lose without fighting for it.
And a basket of lies and half truths told by "Leave".

((And Mick, I would be interested in your view on the departures of Farage, Johnson and Davies?))
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