** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[PDQ Mobile]

But I don't think freedom of movement has resulted in the loss of that much work.

So you are agreeing it has resulted in the loss of work.
I was actually on about wages.
You talk about mechanization, I have seen 3 mechanized car washes where the machines are switched off and people are doing the washing. Cheap labour cheaper than running a machine. Immigration found some working for £4 an hour. A product of supply and demand.

I don't really agree.
It has resulted in more competition for work but on the other hand has resulted in more work available by dint of increased housing, consumer, and transport needs.
Arguably more other stuff too.
Education ( language and other stuff) perhaps?

We could have really boomed but this Govt decided to reduce house building and infrastucture spending after 2009.
A policy now addmitted to be erroneous.

There is an over population agrument to be had, but a great many UK citizens have travelled the other way for work, retirement and other reasons, myself amongst them.
So some balance is struck.

The main argument for freedom of movement is/was of course that some hard earned Sterling would go back East to help those poorer countries get along a bit. A balancing out.

Perhaps the owners of the car washes should reduce their prices!
£4 is below the legal minimum wage.

I think you are blaming the EU when you should be looking at the present Govt. whose whole "reason for being" is to line the pockets of the richest in our society.
It is they who benefit most from lousy wage levels (and low taxation).

All IMHO.

[blackbike]

Two thirds of voters want to quit the EU, new poll finds in boost for Theresa May

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3565433/t ... eresa-may/

[mjr]

Supply and demand freedom of movement has resulted working class working for peanuts. Courier working 14 hour days for 8 hours minimum wage. Happy?

That's blaming the wrong thing. It's the removal of market regulation which leads to people working for below minimum wage. They call it "deregulation" but markets only exist because of regulations and charters and things and it's strange how the regulations that get deleted are usually the ones which protect the working class.

[mercalia]

Two thirds of voters want to quit the EU, new poll finds in boost for Theresa May

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3565433/t ... eresa-may/

and you believe the Sun ( of Truth )?

[Vorpal]

With regards to immigrants and minimum wage (or below) work...

Norway, as part of the EEA has the same agreement with the free exchange of people as applies in the EU. They also have no minimum wage. Yet there is very little of people working for peanuts. I'm sure that if one looked hard enough, it would be possible to find examples.

However, for the most part, both Norwegians and foreigners working in Norway make good wages. For unskilled labour, such as cleaning, car washing, basic work for builders, etc., the wages are better in Norway than many other European countries.

This happens despite the same free labour market as in the UK and no minimum wage. Why might that happen?
I think this article has a pretty good summary https://leftfootforward.org/2015/02/nor ... migration/

I will add that the employment rate is very high in Norway; 3rd highest among OECD countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... yment_rate

[al_yrpal]

When I was last in Norway all the petrol stations were unmanned. This was said to be because it was uneconomic to man them because of high wages. Norway has little unemployment, which
Is why the lowest wages are higher.
Britain has plenty of unemployment which is concentrated in the North where wages are lowest, so it's much higher than the average rate would indicate. This is why there is so much anger against immigrants who are willing to cram into shared houses, work long hours and accept very low wages seemingly depriving the locals of more better paid jobs. Everyone is aware of this, few are brave enough to acknowledge it and say it and the looney left seem impervious to it which is why they have lost so much support.

Al

[Boyd]

Supply and demand freedom of movement has resulted working class working for peanuts. Courier working 14 hour days for 8 hours minimum wage. Happy?

That's blaming the wrong thing. It's the removal of market regulation which leads to people working for below minimum wage. They call it "deregulation" but markets only exist because of regulations and charters and things and it's strange how the regulations that get deleted are usually the ones which protect the working class.

But we are still in the EU? Who removed the market regulations?

[Boyd]

Two thirds of voters want to quit the EU, new poll finds in boost for Theresa May

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3565433/t ... eresa-may/

and you believe the Sun ( of Truth )?

I believe it's a poll not a view of the sun. More importantly " while 22 per cent called for politicians to ignore the result of the vote entirely and stay tied to Brussels."
We believe in democracy democracy democracy. God Almighty they voted the wrong way...ignore them.

[blackbike]

Two thirds of voters want to quit the EU, new poll finds in boost for Theresa May

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3565433/t ... eresa-may/

and you believe the Sun ( of Truth )?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... servatives

News of the same poll in the Guardian with a link to the FT.

Tee hee.

[Boyd]

Two thirds of voters want to quit the EU, new poll finds in boost for Theresa May

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3565433/t ... eresa-may/

and you believe the Sun ( of Truth )?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg ... servatives

News of the same poll in the Guardian with a link to the FT.

Tee hee.

Nice one!

[blackbike]

For those of you who use the state broadcaster as your main source of news, here is why you didn't learn of Monday's opinion poll which showed that over two thirds of Brits now back Brexit.

It didn't cover the story at all.

http://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/davi ... ep-secret/

[mjr]

For those of you who use the state broadcaster as your main source of news, here is why you didn't learn of Monday's opinion poll which showed that over two thirds of Brits now back Brexit.

Maybe it's because YouGov could be considered not impartial on this matter because it was set up by a pro-Brexit Conservative MP and a Conservative PPC who used to own ConservativeHome? YouGov finding strong support for Brexit is rather like the Pope finding a lot of Catholics - not really news.

[al_yrpal]

But it's not YouGov it's the people they asked. I doubt they only asked people who were in favour of Brexit and ignored remainers. Other polls say the same trend too. If you are a remainer you are now well into the minority. We are on our way out...

Al

[blackbike]

For those of you who use the state broadcaster as your main source of news, here is why you didn't learn of Monday's opinion poll which showed that over two thirds of Brits now back Brexit.

Maybe it's because YouGov could be considered not impartial on this matter because it was set up by a pro-Brexit Conservative MP and a Conservative PPC who used to own ConservativeHome? YouGov finding strong support for Brexit is rather like the Pope finding a lot of Catholics - not really news.

Here is a BBC report from 2005 where the state broadcaster was only too happy to tell us that YouGov had found that Labour was in the lead on several election issues.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/ ... 506035.stm


After well over a year of constant debate and argument about our EU membership it is remarkable that the nation's biggest and most well-funded news provider completely failed to mention a poll which shows that the argument is all but over, with only 22% of people still opposing Brexit.

Especially when that broadcaster has shown a lot of that debate and argument.

It is important to remember that news sources often don't report news that is off-message.

They prefer it if people don't know inconvenient facts.

[mjr]

But it's not YouGov it's the people they asked. I doubt they only asked people who were in favour of Brexit and ignored remainers. Other polls say the same trend too. If you are a remainer you are now well into the minority. We are on our way out...

It is YouGov. What they asked was notably dodgy, which I note no-one else yet bothered to post:
"Thinking about the result of the EU referendum, which of the following best reflects your view?

• I support Britain leaving the EU, and the British government should ensure that Britain does leave the EU: 45%
• I did not support Britain leaving the EU, but now the British people have voted to leave the government has a duty to carry out their wishes and leave: 23%
• I do not support Britain leaving the EU and the government should ignore the result of the referendum or seek to overturn it: 22%
• Don't know: 9%"

Now, if you can't see the multiple biases in that question, or how simplifying it to 68% wanting Brexit is inaccurate, then I feel you're being blinded by Brexit fervour.