** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[Tangled Metal]

Technically we never had Tesla and from what I've read we weren't front runners anyway.

There's a lot we haven't lost in the automotive market. We supply heavily into European tier 1 and 2 companies. We're a small player, there's a lot bigger employers doing the same. Just because a car is put together in another country doesn't mean it's not significantly made elsewhere.

Having said that times are hard right now. It's getting annoying having to ramp up production to feed a Brexit deadline stockpiling only for another deferment and drop off in orders to reduce stock. Simply put, these are large, multinational companies who think nothing of buying from one country, importing into another to then ship elsewhere. They will always get around trading conditions if they know what they are. The issue is unpredictable situations they can't plan around.

[kwackers]

Technically we never had Tesla and from what I've read we weren't front runners anyway.

It would make no sense to build the gigafactory here.
But there were aspects of Tesla that he suggested could end up here and now won't.

The issue is unpredictable situations they can't plan around.

And if we have a hard brexit will those conditions become predictable?
What if BoJo's plan goes through?

In truth both those options are only the beginning, once implemented uncertainty will hound us for years.

There's only one option gives certainty.

[Tangled Metal]

Did Tesla commit anything to come to the UK? Count your chickens before the eggs have been laid if you want to.

If Brexit or remain has happened things certainly get more predictable than they are in this limbo state. I work in a SME that simply relies on export. Fortunately we have had customer support through switching to ex works (technically I believe FCA is more accurate incoterms). They've taken on a lot of our risks. Still it's affecting us through the better projects going elsewhere. We don't always get to bid. This isn't a reflection on our company but the uncertainty in our political situation which ultimately feeds into trading uncertainty. Bear in mind projects last 10 years for us with service parts included. It's a long term commitment for a customer to make without knowing how things will or might change.

[reohn2]

Hi,
Instead of personally attacking individuals on these posts.
Maybe like to answer the question whether or not That on both sides there is a good mixture of people and the way that a reason and think/one side is full of selfish elite capitalist And the other is liberal socialist.
I will direct that question to R2

My opinion is that both sides are balanced 90%, the other 10% might lean one way or the other.

When you begin to put forward some arguments for leaving and answer some of the valid questions put to Brexit supporters,I'll engage with your questions.

I wish to add to this quoted post that I don't believe I've made any personal attacks on anyone.What I have done however is point out some of the what I see as ridiculous statements made by Brexit supporters (such as 'gut feeling' being a reason for voting out),both by contributors on the thread,those in government and in the media and the distasteful attitude of 'we won you lost get over it',which only serves as divisive.

I will point out though,once again,that I've asked some simple questions of leavers as to how the country will fare after Brexit which have,along with similar questions asked by other posters,been met with a blank.
If Brexit is so good for the country there should no end of reasons and explanations for leaving,all of which would reassure remainers and bridge the divide between the two sides.
However nothing is forthcoming and some people on the thread have been very patient in their waiting for replies.

Al's stance in particular,I have to say,hasn't been helpful.Along with some of his more preposterous claims,calling people unpatriotic and traitors,and anyone with a leftwing political leaning as Trots doesn't help the Brexit cause at all,but what irritates mostly is his position of claiming to know more about it all than anyone else,if that's not his claim it certainly seems to be.

FWIW,IMHO the UK has a huge problem with deciding on brexit and the country's relationship with the EU,a relationship that could effect negatively on UK citizens for decades to come,that cannot be denied.
If we crash out without a deal which a possibility with the current PM in charge,things could even be worse as I fear the sharks such as the US,China and Russia will be circling if we find ourselves in such a situation.
Personally I'd rather we stayed in,but if we should leave then I'd prefer as soft a Brexit as possible that's best both for us and the EU and with the UK remaining friends on good terms and closely aligned on many issues.

The problem presently and as the past ten years has shown we cannot IMV trust the Tories with our economy,environment or social justice system and more so on delivering a Brexit that's good for the majority of UK citizens,that to me is obvious as their track record since 2010 is diabolical,one only needs look around at the state of the country to realise it.
The country was divided in 2016 down the middle on the issue but for a couple of percentage points,since then there's been a lot of learning done by a lot of people across the land and a lot of realising that a lot of money was spent by a few very rich people telling a lot of lies about the UK/EU relationship,so much so that both the Brexit campaign and the UK government needed taking to court on the issue.

As a result far more people know a lot more now than they did then,so given the HofC can't decide one way or the other,much as it pains me to say,another referendum should be held to settle the matter.

EDITED for typos and grammar

[Oldjohnw]

I don't think that the arguments are even at all.

supporters of brexit, both here and in the wider community, frequently speak of wanting to make our own laws and not being ruled from Brussels but never, repeat never, give a single example of which laws we can't make. Similarly, the current leave politicians, just as at the time of the referendum, make untrue claim after claim such as Gove regarding trees and the NHS and immigrants.

Nothing changes.

[mjr]

Did Tesla commit anything to come to the UK? Count your chickens before the eggs have been laid if you want to.

If Brexit or remain has happened things certainly get more predictable than they are in this limbo state. I work in a SME that simply relies on export. Fortunately we have had customer support through switching to ex works (technically I believe FCA is more accurate incoterms). They've taken on a lot of our risks. [...]

I hope whoever agreed that realises that FCA (free at carrier) makes you responsible for getting it through export clearance, unlike EXW. Both are pretty kind to the exporter (compared to something like DDP Delivered Duty Paid) but FCA is taking on a risk you didn't have before Brexit.

Now multiply these extra risks by all the SMEs and you get some idea why Brexit increases business vulnerability

This was just one way that being in the EU freed up trade. I wish Leavers had to pay for all this extra admin directly.

[broadway]

There's a lot we haven't lost in the automotive market. We supply heavily into European tier 1 and 2 companies. We're a small player, there's a lot bigger employers doing the same. Just because a car is put together in another country doesn't mean it's not significantly made elsewhere.

Having said that times are hard right now. It's getting annoying having to ramp up production to feed a Brexit deadline stockpiling only for another deferment and drop off in orders to reduce stock. Simply put, these are large, multinational companies who think nothing of buying from one country, importing into another to then ship elsewhere. They will always get around trading conditions if they know what they are. The issue is unpredictable situations they can't plan around.

Like Brexit, so much easier to order from the EU and avoid the hassle.

[kwackers]

Did Tesla commit anything to come to the UK? Count your chickens before the eggs have been laid if you want to.

It's not a case of counting chickens but he explicitly said he wouldn't be coming to the UK because of brexit.

Do we believe he's the only person looking to invest cash that is put off by brexit?
Doesn't seem very likely does it?

Most companies stay out of politics - at least publicly. Saves queering the pitch should they have a change of heart.
Musk isn't most companies though, seems to speak his mind regardless.

The problem with costing up stuff like this is you can never tell, perhaps all those folk who've upped sticks where going to do so anyway. Perhaps all those companies that invested in other countries always were going to do that anyway too.

Who knows?

But I defy anyone to put their hand on their heart and say with any certainty that we haven't lost investment because of brexit.

[Vorpal]

Did Tesla commit anything to come to the UK? Count your chickens before the eggs have been laid if you want to.

It's not a case of counting chickens but he explicitly said he wouldn't be coming to the UK because of brexit.

Do we believe he's the only person looking to invest cash that is put off by brexit?
Doesn't seem very likely does it?

Most companies stay out of politics - at least publicly. Saves queering the pitch should they have a change of heart.
Musk isn't most companies though, seems to speak his mind regardless.

The problem with costing up stuff like this is you can never tell, perhaps all those folk who've upped sticks where going to do so anyway. Perhaps all those companies that invested in other countries always were going to do that anyway too.

Who knows?

But I defy anyone to put their hand on their heart and say with any certainty that we haven't lost investment because of brexit.

Harvard Business Review figure it at about 6% less investment based upon surveys of thousands of British executives.
https://hbr.org/2019/03/brexit-is-alrea ... -heres-how

[Paulatic]

Who'd of thunk it I’m enjoying the Brexit Party

[reohn2]

Who'd of thunk it I’m enjoying the Brexit Party

Wonderful!

[Cowsham]

Well done Fiona Bruce for pronouncing his name right when introducing Aldous Everard -- what a class name. Wish I'd thought of that.

[Mike Sales]

I am reading a book about the sub-continent (The Age of Kali by William Dalymple) and the section about Imran Khan.
Those of us old enough will remember his father in law, Jimmy Goldsmith and his Referendum Party. Also, the Eye's nickname, Goldenballs and its Goldenballs Fund, to pay for Lord Gnome's organ's defence against Sir Jam's libel suits. Who can forget his smirks on the declaration of his electoral contest with David Mellor.
The leavers include some curious fish, don't they?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Goldsmith

[mercalia]

The lull before the storm?

“In practice, this prime minister is, for all his talk of getting Brexit done, now basically replicating the strategy errors of 2016 and 2017, which brought his predecessor down,” he said. “This is diplomatic amateurism dressed up domestically as boldness and decisiveness.”

While the UK could get a “quick and dirty” trade deal by the end of 2020, Rogers said it would exclude the UK services industry and give the EU leverage over fishing rights in British waters.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/25/johnson-sowing-seeds-of-biggest-brexit-crisis-yet-warns-sir-ivan-rogers?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZGF5cy0xOTExMjY%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&CMP=GTUK_email

[Debs]

this prime minister is, for all his talk of get Brexit done

The trashy slogan does contain some element of truth though, we certainly will get done if it happens, done up like a kipper.

I wonder why the Lib Dems don't use a counter-slogan "We'll get Brexit dumped" ...now that really does have a trashcan ring to it.