Lance Dopestrong wrote:Mick F wrote:though not clear on how of course, and that's the sticking point.
I'm an in-betweenie (tm), so have the rare advantage of being a detached observer of both camps.
As I recall from the campaign there was very little talk of any kind of negotiated deal, contract, settlement, call it what you will. The outties were sold a campaign on "out". The official out campaign and the next biggest, Farage's, were not selling the prospect of any kind of significant deal to the public as their primary stance as a means of leaving, or as a prerequisite for doing so.
It is since the referrendum that talk of the deal quickly came to the fore, and that was in large part driven by remainers, like May, not the outties.
So from my rare persepective I could see that out meant out in the way it was sold, and all this talk of deals etc is nothing more than the deliberate muddying of the waters in an attempt to delay or even halt entire the prospect of us ever leaving. That's fair enough - if the vote had gone the other way I'm sure the outties would be calling for a renegotiation with the EU, citing their significant vote share as a mandate for such a thing. But there's little doubt, out meant out (that rhymes, I'm the brexit poet laureat!) in the manner in which it was campaigned.
A poor analysis, as the explanation "out means out and nothing more" neglects to consider the various motivations, intents, wishes, imagined futures and other elements that must have been part of what drove some voters to vote "out". It also fails to consider a whole host of "reasons" put up for voting "out" that have turned out to be based on falsity, deliberate and otherwise.
You can accept the MickF and Natural Ankling explanation that there's nothing more to their "out" decision that "a feeling". I'm sure that's true but it begs the question: what drives this feeling? Within those drivers what are the imagined or hoped for things that will be expunged and things that will be gained - other than a satisfaction of having "the feeling" catered to?
On the other hand, you may be correct. All "out" voters may have voted on nothing but a feeling of distaste for the EU for which they themselves cannot identify any underlying reasons, especially to themselves. They are uninterested in the practical consequences, to themselves or others. Only satidsfaction of "the feeling" matters.
Being human and understanding that all humans do reasoning, of one quality or another, concerning every little thing ... I find this simple explanation entirely unconvincing. These voters are either reluctant to state their reasons or are hiding from them themselves, out of another "feeling", probably shame or their feeling that they are merely prejudiced in a society that tends to find being prejudiced a demeaning or even foolish attitude.
But when 52% of the actual voters are prejudiced - prejudice has become a near-norm, so that's OK then.
Cugel, probably prejudiced against the prejudiced.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
