** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[bovlomov]

I wouldn't worry too much about reputation. Every nation is criticised by other nations for something. France gets a lot of criticism, as does Germany. And the USA, and Russia. And Australia. The Brexit stuff will blow over in time and we will carry on working alongside like-minded nations just as we always have done.

Britain had a reputation as a stable, sober sort of country. Then the Iraq war came along, and our reputation declined. Now we are a laughing stock. I think that goes beyond the usual criticisms that countries (enemies or allies) make about each other, and it will affect our standing in international matters for a long time to come.

[reohn2]

I wouldn't worry too much about reputation. Every nation is criticised by other nations for something. France gets a lot of criticism, as does Germany. And the USA, and Russia. And Australia. The Brexit stuff will blow over in time and we will carry on working alongside like-minded nations just as we always have done.

Britain had a reputation as a stable, sober sort of country. Then the Iraq war came along, and our reputation declined. Now we are a laughing stock. I think that goes beyond the usual criticisms that countries (enemies or allies) make about each other, and it will affect our standing in international matters for a long time to come.

+1
I'm always amazed at how the UK perceives itself,it seems to cling on to some kind of world leader status of times gone by when in reality it's a small group of islands off(self imposed)Europe that lost its way a long time ago and continues on in its blinkered and dead end path,still believing everything will be rosey in the that English garden if we can just get over that Brexit hill and onto the green and pleasant plateau beyond.
Yeah right
I'll now await the avalanche of people saying how negative I am in my outlook.......

[pwa]

I wouldn't worry too much about reputation. Every nation is criticised by other nations for something. France gets a lot of criticism, as does Germany. And the USA, and Russia. And Australia. The Brexit stuff will blow over in time and we will carry on working alongside like-minded nations just as we always have done.

Britain had a reputation as a stable, sober sort of country. Then the Iraq war came along, and our reputation declined. Now we are a laughing stock. I think that goes beyond the usual criticisms that countries (enemies or allies) make about each other, and it will affect our standing in international matters for a long time to come.

+1
I'm always amazed at how the UK perceives itself,it seems to cling on to some kind of world leader status of times gone by when in reality it's a small group of islands off(self imposed)Europe that lost its way a long time ago and continues on in its blinkered and and dead end path,still believing everything will be rosey in the that English garden if we can just get over that Brexit and onto the green and pleasant plateau beyond.
Yeah right
I'll now await the avalanche of people saying how negative I am in my outlook.......

Negative? Yes, I think so. We still have one of the biggest economies and we will remain significant for that, if nothing else. We have a long and ongoing tradition for democratically elected government and for all its faults that is something that we can continue to celebrate. It may even let your lot in next time! Where would you rather live? France, where racism is much greater than here? Germany or the Netherlands, where the really Far Right make our UKIP look tame? Nowhere is perfect, or ever will be.

[broadway]

Britain had a reputation as a stable, sober sort of country. Then the Iraq war came along, and our reputation declined. Now we are a laughing stock. I think that goes beyond the usual criticisms that countries (enemies or allies) make about each other, and it will affect our standing in international matters for a long time to come.

+1
I'm always amazed at how the UK perceives itself,it seems to cling on to some kind of world leader status of times gone by when in reality it's a small group of islands off(self imposed)Europe that lost its way a long time ago and continues on in its blinkered and and dead end path,still believing everything will be rosey in the that English garden if we can just get over that Brexit and onto the green and pleasant plateau beyond.
Yeah right
I'll now await the avalanche of people saying how negative I am in my outlook.......

Negative? Yes, I think so. We still have one of the biggest economies and we will remain significant for that, if nothing else. We have a long and ongoing tradition for democratically elected government and for all its faults that is something that we can continue to celebrate. It may even let your lot in next time! Where would you rather live? France, where racism is much greater than here? Germany or the Netherlands, where the really Far Right make our UKIP look tame? Nowhere is perfect, or ever will be.

So where does all the "make Britain great again" come from? The fact is we are no longer a super power, unless you count our not so "special relationship" with the US where we can tag along with the big boys.

[reohn2]

Negative? Yes, I think so. We still have one of the biggest economies and we will remain significant for that, if nothing else. We have a long and ongoing tradition for democratically elected government and for all its faults that is something that we can continue to celebrate. It may even let your lot in next time! Where would you rather live? France, where racism is much greater than here? Germany or the Netherlands, where the really Far Right make our UKIP look tame? Nowhere is perfect, or ever will be.

Nowhere is perfect granted.
But is racism any worse in France?
Does the far right in Germany or The Netherlands have any larger following than here?
Don't think for one moment that because in those countries racists have official representation in the form of political parties,the UK doesn't have the the same levels of racism.

I was born here in the UK but I see a very divided society if the referendum for all its misrepresentation on both sides didn't reveal that to everyone I don't know what did.

We now have a PM negotiating our exit from the EU without a mandate from the people,people who voted out on a 52% majority.
How split does the country have to be before we realise the politicians in power are hanging on with there fingernails and that Brexit has a very slim and unstable majority?
FWIW,I'm willing to go along with the 52%,but IMHO after the recent election result any Brexit negotiations should be a cross party affair at the very least.
ATM we have a PM who I wouldn't trust an inch to get the best deal for the whole of UK society and who,going off her and her party's current track record are incapable of getting the best deal .
IMHO,we live under the illusion that we don't need the EU,nothing could be further from the truth at a very unstable time in the UK's history TBH I don't think people realise how much turmoil the country is in!

[matt_twam_asi]

Germany or the Netherlands, where the really Far Right make our UKIP look tame?

Jo Cox MP was assassinated by a far right supporting terrorist last year. Did you miss that news?

[blackbike]

Germany or the Netherlands, where the really Far Right make our UKIP look tame?

Jo Cox MP was assassinated by a far right supporting terrorist last year. Did you miss that news?

It was nothing to do with the far right.

The vast majority of far right people are law abiding peaceful people who have not harmed anyone.

To stereotype a whole group of people because of the actions of a deranged 'lone wolf' individual is an appalling thing to do.

Do you do it when other murders happen like the ones at Manchester Arena and London Bridge?

[meic]

where the really Far Right make our UKIP look tame?

UKIP are a mainstream party, so yes a far right party will make them look tame. On the other hand our homespun UK far right parties can match the Dutch and Germans any day.

[Psamathe]

According to a recent poll (usual caveats apply) only about 20% of us now believe Brexit should not happen. Maybe some of you should shift your focus to how Brexit can be brought about in the best way. I know most on this thread don't want it, but it is probably going to happen so why not get over it and start talking about the kind of Brexit you find least difficult to accept?

Lots of us have been trying to debate just that subject of what sort of Brexit is best. But it seems that Brextremists keep trying to shut down the debate - "the country voted to take control of immigration therefore we have to leave the single market". But the country also voted for a Brexit that doesn't damage jobs and the economy, and for a Brexit that delivers an extra £350m a week for the NHS......

Apparently the country also voted to leave Euratom (a body legally distinct from the EU); I don't remember being asked about that but apparently we did vote for that as well; and it seems that will probably means UK taxpayers have to give EDF a load more dosh for Hinckley Point! (but apparently "it is worth the price", or so we keep getting told)

Ian

[Cyril Haearn]

where the really Far Right make our UKIP look tame?

UKIP are a mainstream party, so yes a far right party will make them look tame. On the other hand our homespun UK far right parties can match the Dutch and Germans any day.

In Germany the far right AfD gets votes and seats but all the other parties refuse to talk to it, +1

The CDU (Tories) and SPD (Labour) are very alike, the Linke (left, former SED/PDS) is more like Corbyns Labour and leads one regional government. It is in coalition with SPD + greens there and is rather moderate

[blackbike]

Angela Merkel opposes same sex marriage.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video ... iage-video

[Vorpal]

Angela Merkel opposes same sex marriage.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video ... iage-video

The CDU has always been opposed to same sex marriage. It is a change that they held a vote, and legalized same sex marriage http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/06/30 ... riage.html
http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/german-p ... ge-1718876

[blackbike]

Angela Merkel opposes same sex marriage.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video ... iage-video

The CDU has always been opposed to same sex marriage. It is a change that they held a vote, and legalized same sex marriage http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/06/30 ... riage.html
http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/german-p ... ge-1718876

I just thought I'd mention Ms Merkel's opposition to same sex marriage as I was unaware of it until today.

That made me wonder if other people were unaware of it too as it is usual for liberal and progressive people to censure those who oppose same sex marriage and I have never heard any criticism of Ms Merkel from them.

On the contrary, Ms Merkel is often praised by them.

Will this continue now we know she has the same views on same sex marriage as the DUP?

[Audax67]

O wad some power the giftie gie us...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -uk-brexit

[mercalia]

I wouldn't worry too much about reputation. Every nation is criticised by other nations for something. France gets a lot of criticism, as does Germany. And the USA, and Russia. And Australia. The Brexit stuff will blow over in time and we will carry on working alongside like-minded nations just as we always have done.

Britain had a reputation as a stable, sober sort of country. Then the Iraq war came along, and our reputation declined. Now we are a laughing stock. I think that goes beyond the usual criticisms that countries (enemies or allies) make about each other, and it will affect our standing in international matters for a long time to come.

+1
I'm always amazed at how the UK perceives itself,it seems to cling on to some kind of world leader status of times gone by when in reality it's a small group of islands off(self imposed)Europe that lost its way a long time ago and continues on in its blinkered and dead end path,still believing everything will be rosey in the that English garden if we can just get over that Brexit hill and onto the green and pleasant plateau beyond.
Yeah right
I'll now await the avalanche of people saying how negative I am in my outlook.......

well we can still nuke a few countries if we wanted to Another way of looking at is the development of democracy ( here ) with Fred and Mary Bloggs not willing to put up with being ruled anymore, and lets face it those smart alec comfortable middle class politicians have been kicked in the teeth? All countries rise and wane? Look at Holland once a major power that beat the stuffing out of our navy and even sailed up the Thames and stole the British flagship And also France or Germany for that matter that tried to rule Europe and have been suitably chastised? So I think your image of the UK is a Don Quixote windmill.