** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[Tiberius]

And I wonder if things are made worse through the different ways the UK and EU look on things; EU is more concerned about citizens, rights, etc. whereas UK is primarily concerned with £££££. So UK firmly believes "they need us more than we need them" because UK can only see the ££££ in it all, whilst the EU sees there is more to life than £££££ and is placing much more importance on things like citizens rights, etc.

That (for me) is an interesting observation.

I'm a full on supporter of brexit, but you do have a point.

[pete75]

....
Ah but according to some press reports a lot of pro membership folk now have now accepted we will leave and want the process to be over an done with asap. A remainer of such views would not want it to be dragged out another two years.

Might it depend on the political ideology of the individual owning the particular paper.
I've seen relatively recent reports that were the referendum held again today we'd be remaining in the EU.

And I wonder if accepting and wanting are very different. I "accept" the fact that Highways will continue to surface dress roads around me - don't not mean I agree with it, just that I've argued the point for as long as I'm prepared to spend time on it and I accept the fact that I cannot change it ...

And the distinction between "accept" and "agree with/want" is probably being used by the pro-Leave press to make it look like higher number want to leave when in reality they just "accept" (against their will) that we will be leaving. I suspect such press are using easily mis-interpreted words which allow others to impose their own interpretation.

Ian

Of course accepting and wanting are different and I didn't apply those words to the same thing.. Someone may accept the inevitability of something they dislike happening and, for various reasons, want it to be over and done with as quickly as possible.
The Independent has been reporting there would now be a majority for remain but it was in that paper that I read that many who voted remain now accept that we will leave and want the process over as soon as possible.

[pete75]

.....
If May really wants the transition period she'll agree to whatever is needed to get it. She's already starting to relent on the ECJ.....

If she is then maybe she should tell her chief negotiator who is quoted in reports

Brexit Secretary also said the power of the European Court of Justice in the UK will end in 2019

Ian

Yes and teh same article also reports "However cracks are already beginning to show at the top of the party". Who has the final say, May or Davis?

[reohn2]

I believe leaving is a huge mistake for the UK.
It was brought about by populist right wing forces that feed upon their own false agenda, I just do not understand it.
Indeed it would now appear that Brexit starts to become the unmitigated disaster long foreseen.
A disaster, socially, politically, and financially.

+1
It's nothing short of populist madness,we're poised on the biggest precipice of utter disaster for the country since WW2 IMHO,we'll regret it long and hard in the dark days ahead.
The Tory party Camaron the idiot,the self seeking BoJo,and Gove along with it's lunatic ultra right,and Farage and his mad UKIP party are to blaim!
More fool the people who believed them.

[roubaixtuesday]

Who has the final say, May or Davis?

Neither. Brussels has the final say.

[pete75]

Who has the final say, May or Davis?

Neither. Brussels has the final say.

Really? I suspect on the EU side Mrs Merkel has more say than anyone in Brussels.

[roubaixtuesday]

Really? I suspect on the EU side Mrs Merkel has more say than anyone in Brussels.

Perhaps, although there will be other influential voices on this too.

But the point I was making was the arrogance of the squabblers in the Tory party. I saw it compared to two bald men arguing over a comb neither owns in the first place.

The EU has a united position and has fully 40% of our trade at their whim, some of which is already starting to relocate to their shores. What we demand will have very little impact on what happens, beyond that we can choose to make it catastrophic rather than merely bad if we throw our toys out of the pram.

[al_yrpal]

Who has the final say, May or Davis?

Neither. Brussels has the final say.

...which is one of the many reasons so many voted to get OUT of the Superstate. When we finally leave, the EU will have the status of any other country and any future agreements will be a matter of negotiation based on mutual interests rather than Franco/German stitch ups imposed on us.

Al

[roubaixtuesday]

When we finally leave, the EU will have the status of any other country and any future agreements will be a matter of negotiation based on mutual interests rather than Franco/German stitch ups imposed on us

or, back in the real world

When we finally leave, the EU will have the status of any other country and any future agreements will be a matter of negotiation based on economic power rather than common interests.

Which will leave us either with diminished trade or accepting EU rules. Or actually, both.

[kwackers]

When we finally leave, the EU will have the status of any other country and any future agreements will be a matter of negotiation based on mutual interests rather than Franco/German stitch ups imposed on us

or, back in the real world

When we finally leave, the EU will have the status of any other country and any future agreements will be a matter of negotiation based on economic power rather than common interests.

Which will leave us either with diminished trade or accepting EU rules. Or actually, both.

Quite.

Some people are so out of touch with how the world actually works you've got to wonder about the bubble they inhabit.

[broadway]

Who has the final say, May or Davis?

Neither. Brussels has the final say.

Don't the 27 individual EU countries have a bit of input too?

[Psamathe]

Who has the final say, May or Davis?

Neither. Brussels has the final say.

Really? I suspect on the EU side Mrs Merkel has more say than anyone in Brussels.

Difficult to know but I suspect that with regard Brexit Merkel might not have as much say as everybody thinks. My thoughts are that recently the more eastern EU member states have started standing up for themselves and not just doing what Merkel says (e.g. over the refugee crisis), shown that they are not there to do Merkel's bidding. Plus, those more eastern EU member states have far lower exports into the UK and value Freedom of Movement. So if Merkel starts trying to push for an outcome to suit German business without e.g. Freedom of Movement then the eastern member states might start not doing what she says (and remembering that EU trade deals require unanimity - every member state has a veto).

Ian

[reohn2]

Who has the final say, May or Davis?

Neither. Brussels has the final say.

Don't the 27 individual EU countries have a bit of input too?

Yes but through Brussels,which is the conduit.

[Psamathe]

Who has the final say, May or Davis?

Neither. Brussels has the final say.

...which is one of the many reasons so many voted to get OUT of the Superstate. When we finally leave, the EU will have the status of any other country and any future agreements will be a matter of negotiation based on mutual interests rather than Franco/German stitch ups imposed on us.

Al

Except that we were part of Brussels. We also used to "have that say". Our democratically elected MEPs sat in the EU Parliament, etc.

Ian

[reohn2]

Except that we were part of Brussels. We also used to "have that say". Our democratically elected MEPs sat in the EU Parliament, etc.

Ian

Quite,though some would have you believe the UK has/had no say in anything the EU decided