** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[pete75]

We're already skint or hadn't you noticed?
88% of GDP and rising.

And that despite the ongoing austerity measures which are driving personal hardship amongst the less well off in society.
But by all means keep on sniggering.

I am not sniggering at all I am preparing, and so are lots of financially aware people. The 88% is nothing compared to what the leaders of the Labour Party and their new hard left supporters are planning. You aint seen nothing yet..

Al

A party in power that hammers the worse off is fine with you. A party in power that may take a bit a bit of money away from wealthy folk like yourself to help them a bit is would be oh so terrible.

[al_yrpal]

A party in power that hammers the worse off is fine with you. A party in power that may take a bit a bit of money away from wealthy folk like yourself to help them a bit is would be oh so terrible.

No its not! I genuinely dont understand that. The Tories appear to have done quite a bit for the very least well off with the huge increase in the basic income tax allowance over the last few years and big increases in the minimum wage taking that to one of the highest in Europe? Universal Credit seems flawed in trying to switch weekly paid benefit recipients to monthly paid in one hit. Many of these people are unable to manage money. Zero hours contracts cause a lot of controversy but many people on them actually like them. We have the lowest unemployment for almost 50 years despite the population balooning in recent years. I would like to see immigration curbed and the lowest wages and prices forced up to higher levels so that the lowest paid get decent wages instead of low Eastern European levels.

As for me, I pay basic rate tax and am a long way from the 40% you so obviously pay. Although I would willingly pay more to see better public services and the NHS. If I am well off its due to lifelong prudence and saving.

Al

[thirdcrank]

I'm struggling to see a Brexit connection.

[bovlomov]

The 88% is nothing compared to what the leaders of the Labour Party and their new hard left supporters are planning. You aint seen nothing yet..

I don't know what it's like in the Chilterns, but around here you'd struggle to find any 'hard left supporters' - at least according to my definition. And I'm in London - a comparative hotbed of leftism. Where are these hard leftists, and what do they want?

The people I know who identify as left wing, they would like a more equitable tax system, limited nationalisation, better infrastructure, more social housing, better social support, and other minor changes to the economy. You may argue about how much that is desirable or achievable, but I don't think those aspirations could reasonably be described as 'hard left'.

No one's going to turn your garden into a collective farm.

[horizon]

Topic has been trimmed again. Please refrain form calling each other names, implying stupidity or trolling, etc.

Make moderators' lives a wee bit easier so we can ride our bikes more

+1 and thank you Vorpal.

This is a good thread and it would be a shame if it descended into personal slanging matches. Some people might suggest that politics doesn't belong on a cycling forum but I find it refreshing to hear from fellow cyclists on this issue, whatever their viewpoint.

[al_yrpal]

I agree about the politics but Brexit just goes around in circles and personally I was just responding to a question. Thanks Mr H and Vorpal.

Al

[horizon]

I am preparing, and so are lots of financially aware people. The 88% is nothing compared to what the leaders of the Labour Party and their new hard left supporters are planning. You aint seen nothing yet..

Al

al_yrpal: those Labour Party leaders are generally pro-Brexit as it gives them more leeway to support industry for example. To them, the EU is a bit of a capitalist plot. OTOH, many Remainers like myself fear a deregulated Tory Britain outside the EU. It seems to depend on who gets in to No 10. Would it not be better to support Remain to clip Corbyn's wings a bit? Just in case, you understand.

[Psamathe]

But a few don't seem to understand that we won't be coerced into rolling over about the Brexit issue, we won't be saying mia culpa over our preferred option. But they even fail to see that we don't expect them to give in either, but all we ask is that they accept the fact that the Referendum came up with a Leave Result - Move on!
Wish the M.P.s would do likewise :? . IGICB MM

Move on? A 972 page thread would suggest it's not very likely. Likewise I don't suppose anti-brexit MPs are likely to give up the fight either.

Another report on C4 news this evening about a completely fake video created for Me Banks designed to scare people about immigrants and released a few days before the voting (completely fraudulent). Apparently they have more tomorrow night.

Ian

[kwackers]

We're already skint or hadn't you noticed?
88% of GDP and rising.

And that despite the ongoing austerity measures which are driving personal hardship amongst the less well off in society.
But by all means keep on sniggering.

I am not sniggering at all I am preparing, and so are lots of financially aware people. The 88% is nothing compared to what the leaders of the Labour Party and their new hard left supporters are planning. You aint seen nothing yet..

Al

What exactly are they preparing? An end to austerity? Something which not only has been roundly condemned as useless by the majority of economists but the tories have surely proven once and for all doesn't work. We're four years past the point the tories were meant to have reduced our debt to zero.
What happened? If I'd voted for them I'd be well pee'd off.

Preparing is easy when you're financially fluid but being financially aware helps you not at all if you're living on the bread line.
I personally shifted a serious amount of cash elsewhere as preparation for brexit, does that make me "financially aware" or just plain lucky?

[al_yrpal]

Horizon, I dont believe any government led by Corbyn would ever get elected. But...they might elect someone who then gets displaced by a Trot because there are huge numbers of them now registered as voting supporters.

Supporting Remain to hobble a leftist Labour Party is a bit too unbelievable for me.

Al

[mr bajokoses]

But a few don't seem to understand that we won't be coerced into rolling over about the Brexit issue, we won't be saying mia culpa over our preferred option. But they even fail to see that we don't expect them to give in either, but all we ask is that they accept the fact that the Referendum came up with a Leave Result - Move on!
Wish the M.P.s would do likewise . IGICB MM

Move on? A 972 page thread would suggest it's not very likely. Likewise I don't suppose anti-brexit MPs are likely to give up the fight either.

Another report on C4 news this evening about a completely fake video created for Me Banks designed to scare people about immigrants and released a few days before the voting (completely fraudulent). Apparently they have more tomorrow night.

Ian

There's so much of this kind of dodgy activity that the referendum result will never gain real acceptance from the public. It's been said on here many times by various contributors, but there really is no easy way out of the mess we are in. It's all about damage limitation. Opinions will vary (obviously) on which course of action will cause the least damage.

[pete75]

A party in power that hammers the worse off is fine with you. A party in power that may take a bit a bit of money away from wealthy folk like yourself to help them a bit is would be oh so terrible.

No its not! I genuinely dont understand that. The Tories appear to have done quite a bit for the very least well off with the huge increase in the basic income tax allowance over the last few years and big increases in the minimum wage taking that to one of the highest in Europe? Universal Credit seems flawed in trying to switch weekly paid benefit recipients to monthly paid in one hit. Many of these people are unable to manage money. Zero hours contracts cause a lot of controversy but many people on them actually like them. We have the lowest unemployment for almost 50 years despite the population balooning in recent years. I would like to see immigration curbed and the lowest wages and prices forced up to higher levels so that the lowest paid get decent wages instead of low Eastern European levels.

As for me, I pay basic rate tax and am a long way from the 40% you so obviously pay. Although I would willingly pay more to see better public services and the NHS. If I am well off its due to lifelong prudence and saving.

Al

Who likes zero hours contracts? How many people supposedly in employment are on zero hours contracts and not getting much in the way of work.

I think you're a little confused. On the one hand you're claiming we have the one of the highest minimum wages in Europe and on the other you're claiming wages are "low Eastern European levels" both statements cannot be true.

I don't pay 40% tax an dI don't know why you think I do. Since I was made redundant all I have is a small pension from work and now the state pension. Added together they're no more than the average uk salary.

[al_yrpal]

I know quite a few musicians who like their zero hours contracts, other creative folk like the opportunity to do their own thing in non paid work times too. Previously many relied on the dole. Heres a table of minimum wages in Europe, we are in the top tier and I believe increases are planned in the future.https://www.reinisfischer.com/minimum-w ... union-2018

Britain has lost much of its skilled manufacturing capability which paid high wages and we are left with too many low paid unskilled service sector jobs. Thatcher and Union activity in the 70 and 80s did that. How we redress that I am not sure, but an end to the proliferation of 'hairdressing' degrees and emphasis on STEM subjects at University level might be a very good start.

Sorry to hear about your redundancy, I suffered it once and took the opportunity to start my own business from which I never looked back. Not so easy when you are old.

Al

[mjr]

Another report on C4 news this evening about a completely fake video created for Me Banks designed to scare people about immigrants and released a few days before the voting (completely fraudulent). Apparently they have more tomorrow night.

Quick! Talk about zero hours contracts and claim the Lib Dem income tax changes were a Tory policy so that people don't notice this latest evidence that Leave Means Lies.
https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed- ... nt-footage

It's time to lock 'em up and vote again!

[mikeonabike]

A nice article in the Grauniad about how the Irish got their act together and made UK compliance with the GFA a condition of withdrawal deal
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... it-nemesis

Includes this quote from Boris Johnson:

people in Dublin really saw the issues a long way out, much more clearly, perhaps than people in London did

Of course most Leave voters I know are quite happy to see a hard border in the Irish Sea, with NI staying in EU (and Scotland too by the way). Though selling the DUP down the river would be just as much a dereliction of UK's GFA obligations as imposing a hard border on Ireland.