** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[pete75]

Where are the billions needed to renationalise the likes of BT and the electricity companies to come from?

Borrow it - before you go off on the evils of debt, that's how the current owners of most utilities have funded their acquisition, so why would it be good for the private sector and bad for the public? How did we fund the bank bail outs? We somehow came up with the billions then, not that they've shown much gratitude.

That was to help their "friends" can you really imagine them doing it for renationalisation.
Why do you think debt is evil BTW - are you some sort of Victorian moralist? Savings good , borrowing and debt bad. The thing is you can't ahve one without the other unless you just stuff your money under the mattress.

[mjr]

BBC Radio 5 Live

Caller Vanina speaks to Nigel Evans MP and she's not happy with politicians:

“How come they are allowed to vote over and over again, and two years later we are not allowed to vote?"

yep they are very special people with big intellects they are your betters

Actually, they're not allowed to vote twice on the same question during one Parliament. That's to stop the likes of the Long Parliament and Rump Parliament happening again.

The Speaker was already on shaky ground with the second vote on Tuesday, asserting that there was some minor change that was enough. It'll be difficult for him to allow the same subterfuge twice and allow a third vote next week unless there's a big change. The alternative is a constitutional crisis where the government can just keep sending rejected laws back to the Commons forever, citing this as precedent.

Sky's already started spinning against it, calling it an "old" rule and "drastic" to uphold:
https://news.sky.com/story/an-ancient-r ... t-11664555

[mercalia]

BBC Radio 5 Live

Caller Vanina speaks to Nigel Evans MP and she's not happy with politicians:

“How come they are allowed to vote over and over again, and two years later we are not allowed to vote?"

yep they are very special people with big intellects they are your betters

Actually, they're not allowed to vote twice on the same question during one Parliament. That's to stop the likes of the Long Parliament and Rump Parliament happening again.

The Speaker was already on shaky ground with the second vote on Tuesday, asserting that there was some minor change that was enough. It'll be difficult for him to allow the same subterfuge twice and allow a third vote next week unless there's a big change. The alternative is a constitutional crisis where the government can just keep sending rejected laws back to the Commons forever, citing this as precedent.

Sky's already started spinning against it, calling it an "old" rule and "drastic" to uphold:
https://news.sky.com/story/an-ancient-r ... t-11664555

well so much for that?

"Speaking on Politics Live, Housing Secretary James Brokenshire tells Andrew Neil that he believes the prime minister's deal will come back to the Commons, unchanged, for a third attempt next week."

one argument against a new referendum is that it is like sending it back to the voters until they get the answer right? well thats excatly what Mrs May is doing in parliament?

[mjr]

The Speaker was already on shaky ground with the second vote on Tuesday, asserting that there was some minor change that was enough. It'll be difficult for him to allow the same subterfuge twice and allow a third vote next week unless there's a big change. The alternative is a constitutional crisis where the government can just keep sending rejected laws back to the Commons forever, citing this as precedent.

Sky's already started spinning against it, calling it an "old" rule and "drastic" to uphold:
https://news.sky.com/story/an-ancient-r ... t-11664555

well so much for that?

"Speaking on Politics Live, Housing Secretary James Brokenshire tells Andrew Neil that he believes the prime minister's deal will come back to the Commons, unchanged, for a third attempt next week."

Loyalists like the Housing Secretary can believe May will force a constitutional crisis if they want. The Speaker could still head it off, among many other things.

Meanwhile on The Guardian's Politics Live: https://twitter.com/danbloom1/status/11 ... 6902784001 "@RhonddaBryant amendment to block Theresa May from a third vote on her Brexit deal"

one argument against a new referendum is that it is like sending it back to the voters until they get the answer right? well thats excatly what Mrs May is doing in parliament?

Yes, it is. And our constitution actually forbids doing that to parliament, unlike referendums which are barely covered in our constitution because they've been so rare.

Traitor? Betrayer of democracy? Enemy of the people? If she presses ahead with this, Mrs May need just look in the mirror to find one.

[mercalia]

well after all this is over there will be a new witticism? ( has some one already said it?)

liars, damn liars and politicians.

[PH]

Why do you think debt is evil BTW - are you some sort of Victorian moralist?

I don't and I'm not. I assumed you did, why else ask a question for which borrowing is the only possible answer?
The demonising of debt has been a fundamental of UK economic policy since the 80's, not only leading to the give away of assets that we should have been investing in, but also the costly absurdity of PFI where we pay a huge premium for someone else to borrow on our behalf, at zero risk to them.

[100%JR]

MPs to vote today on giving the pubic a 2nd Referendum vote.........

[pete75]

Why do you think debt is evil BTW - are you some sort of Victorian moralist?

I don't and I'm not. I assumed you did, why else ask a question for which borrowing is the only possible answer?
The demonising of debt has been a fundamental of UK economic policy since the 80's, not only leading to the give away of assets that we should have been investing in, but also the costly absurdity of PFI where we pay a huge premium for someone else to borrow on our behalf, at zero risk to them.

1. Borrowing isn't the only possible answer. As Mercalia says they could be renationalised without compensation.
2. You're the one who described debt as evil not me.
3. What's your logic in assuming that anyone who asks a question to which borrowing is an answer thinks it's evil?

[PH]

MPs to vote today on giving the pubic a 2nd Referendum vote.........

Not supported by the Peoples Vote campaign or the Labour Party, it'll fail badly and damage the chances of getting a second vote, this from an Independent Group MP, typically not thought through.

[Mick F]

What is the minimum wage?
£8 an hour or thereabouts.
37h week means £290odd a week = 15 grand a year (or thereabouts) before deductions.

How can anyone find somewhere to live, to heat and to eat, and to commute to work and back .................. and then save for a pension?

They'd struggle on £20k gross.

Exactly so.

It's impossible on the minimum wage.
Daughter 2 (39) has a new job but only earns 17grand at the moment. She'll be lucky to bring home a grand week after tax, NI, and compulsory pension deductions.

She's moved back in with us.

We struggled to pay the mortgage back in the early 80s to early 90s, but we did. We brought up two children and ran a car as well. Mortgage rate was sky high back then. For every £1,000 of mortgage, you paid £10 per month. We had a £30,000 mortgage and paid £300 per month for it.

What's increased from then to now? Food and clothing are cheaper than they used to be taking inflation in to account, so it can only be the cost of buying a house even though the mortgage rate is rock bottom. Renting mirrors that high cost.
Transport costs are high too.

[mr bajokoses]

MPs to vote today on giving the pubic a 2nd Referendum vote.........

Not supported by the Peoples Vote campaign or the Labour Party, it'll fail badly and damage the chances of getting a second vote, this from an Independent Group MP, typically not thought through.

A brexit game to amuse us all:

Referendum choices for the ballot paper:
1. No deal? Already rejected by parliament.
2. May's deal? Already rejected twice by parliament.
3. Remain? ERG/DUP won't like that.

Can anyone come up with a combination of choices for a referendum question that will pass through parliament?

[bovlomov]

Can anyone come up with a combination of choices for a referendum question that will pass through parliament?

- Remain and we'll say no more about it?
- Leave followed by a public enquiry and prosecutions for electoral fraud related to the 2016 referendum?

That way there'd be a little for everyone, whatever the result. I'd anticipate strong campaigning for the first option from the VoteLeave and Leave.eu teams.

[mercalia]

so Trump has his say -

More on Donald Trump's comments on Brexit.

Speaking to reporters at the White House ahead of his meeting with Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, the US president said he did not think a new Brexit referendum would be "possible" as it would be "unfair to people who have won".
( BBC )

Now we know those wanting to refuse a new Referendum are full of trump?

[mr bajokoses]

- Remain and we'll say no more about it?
- Leave followed by a public enquiry and prosecutions for electoral fraud related to the 2016 referendum?

That way there'd be a little for everyone, whatever the result. I'd anticipate strong campaigning for the first option from the VoteLeave and Leave.eu teams.

[mr bajokoses]

so Trump has his say -

More on Donald Trump's comments on Brexit.

Speaking to reporters at the White House ahead of his meeting with Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, the US president said he did not think a new Brexit referendum would be "possible" as it would be "unfair to people who have won".
( BBC )

Now we know those wanting to refuse a new Referendum are full of trump?

In earlier posts you have advocated for a new referendum.

So what options do you propose it should give the electorate? And how would you get parliamentary approval for your proposal?