** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

Almost anything is possible
Just read about Mark Oaten, he took Alresford from the tories by two votes in 1997
The tories forced a re-run, Oaten won by 21 556 votes

The voters usually punish those who want them to vote again

There was no perceived reason, as seen by those who'd voted for him earlier, not to support Oaten once again. Perhaps on the other hand, some of the Conservative voters reasoned that their party had pushed things too far...?

On the other hand, there's every reason for disenchanted Brex**it voters to turn away from Brex**it - and a second referendum will give them that chance. The fact that a few individuals on this forum (and a few vociferous vox pops interviewed on the street by the media) won't budge, doesn't signify. We'll see what the 'silent majority' (excuse the cliché), increasingly fed up with the whole business, think.

Oh yes we will see. But you seem so sure you know?
Not opinions of the minority stamping big feet all over everyone else in the room be they think they can and have been doing so all their life.
Disenchanted....how do you know?

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

Hi,

Anyone started Prepping, hoarding food and fuel, yet?

We.......I always shop for at least 3-6 months of food to be in the larder........I won't even notice the queues

Wow! I've NEVER been that optimistic about still needing food that far ahead! And at my age such long odds as to be silly!

Its called economy coming from a prudent life style, you will note I said always not recently.
Nothing will change for me what ever way it goes.

[Cunobelin]

If there is a General Election, what guarantee is that the result will be accepted?

The Tory supporters of brexit tried this and suddenly 52 % was sufficient to be democratic,but 66% wasn’t!!!!


Unless it goes their way the supporters of brexit will get really upset, and I am sure they will find a way to declare the results undemocratic

[Cours]

If there is a General Election, what guarantee is that the result will be accepted?

The Tory supporters of brexit tried this and suddenly 52 % was sufficient to be democratic,but 66% wasn’t!!!!


Unless it goes their way the supporters of brexit will get really upset, and I am sure they will find a way to declare the results undemocratic

GE's have a precedent of some 220 years ( British Parliament), Brexit, er, doesn't. Hence the consternation.

If Mays deal id defeated by the much predicted 100+ votes tomorrow it will not only the governments 4th defeat in a fortnight but also the biggest parliamentary defeat of any party for 100 years.

Under those circumstances the sitting government will be judged no longer able to govern or win votes in the house. It's at this point that both May AND the governments position becomes untenable and a GE becomes inevitable. Probably the best thing that could happen for country. Clear the air of all this useless procrastination.

[mr bajokoses]

If Mays deal id defeated by the much predicted 100+ votes tomorrow it will not only the governments 4th defeat in a fortnight but also the biggest parliamentary defeat of any party for 100 years.

Under those circumstances the sitting government will be judged no longer able to govern or win votes in the house. It's at this point that both May AND the governments position becomes untenable and a GE becomes inevitable. Probably the best thing that could happen for country. Clear the air of all this useless procrastination.

It's far from obvious to me what issue a GE would settle, when Corbyn has no meaningful stance at all on the biggest issue currently in our domestic politics.

[roubaixtuesday]

...the governments position becomes untenable and a GE becomes inevitable. Probably the best thing that could happen for country. Clear the air of all this useless procrastination.

How does it remove procrastination?

It will automatically delay A50.

The opposition "policy" is for more procrastination.

The most likely outcome is arguably another hung parliament.

There are almost no circumstances imaginable where a GE will remove procrastination.

[Cours]

I think two and a half years to bring a deal before parliament which is 100% certain to be voted down, by likely the biggest majority in a century is the ultimate mind boggle in procrastination. It can't be beaten.

Because of Mays useless procrastination A50 will almost certainly be put off till July anyway. That's already priced in. Her plans to blackmail parliament by running down the clock have failed completely. The electorate will punish both her AND the Tories for this useless mishandling off Brexit.

It's time for someone ( perhaps a National Coalition government like WW2) to take over and get things moving in the right direction. Its fundamentally clear this administration cannot do the job. If they ever could. Its nothing but a long running fiasco.

A GE is the only way forward for this half baked Brexit preparation. May will stand down before the weekend, and will perhaps have no choice but accede to a GE. April is my bet.

There are a few voices on this forum who seem to be terrified of putting a choice before the electorate. A GE will give the clearest picture of what is on offer after Mays disaster of deal is put beyond the pail.

The same voices were very happy with the choice made in 2016. Its time to choose again. Its that simple. That's how politics works, nothing lasts forever.

[djnotts]

…..It's time for someone ( perhaps a National Coalition government like WW2) to take over and get things moving in the right direction. Its fundamentally clear this administration cannot do the job. If they ever could. Its nothing but a long running fiasco.

…...May will stand down before the weekend, and will perhaps have no choice but accede to a GE. April is my bet....

But what is the "right" direction? There is no direction that will likely please more than 51% of the population!

No administration could have done "the job" with which HMG was presented, having cake and eating it being a simple impossibility. The Brexit starting point was to retain many of the benfits of membership while simultaneously shedding all the burdens. That was never going to happen - those who said differently were (and are) either stupid or telling deliberate untruths.

[661-Pete]

...to take over and get things moving in the right direction.

That rather depends on what the "right direction" means - to you or to anyone else.

There are a few voices on this forum who seem to be terrified of putting a choice before the electorate.

I'm terrified of a lot of things that might happen. But in the case of the GE, my attitude is more 'cynical' or 'sceptical' than terrified. Why? Well, a GE under the present system simply means "Conservative vs. Labour" - and both options have been shown up to be grievously wanting...

[djnotts]

IF I were a betting man I'd have a few quid on Sajid Javid as next PM - second favourite after Corbyn and at 7/1.

[thirdcrank]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-46814527


'Brexit Box': Hundreds stock up over food supply fears

[Cours]

Tomorrow's vote will find the Tories wanting and effectively unable to govern or win a vote in the house. It'll the 4th defeat a fortnight and likely the most humiliating defeat in 100 years, perhaps all time.

When previous governments have brought the country to a National crisis they have taken the correct decision and stepped aside. The fixed term parliament rule was not designed to prop up a zombie government. Because we have no constitution as such in the UK much of politics follows precedent. For Earl Grey in 1832, it was electoral reform. For Gladstone in 1886, it was Irish Home Rule. And for Clement Attlee in 1951 and Ted Heath in 1974. They stepped down and went to a public vote because they were 100% obliged to. May will find herself in that very same position this time tomorrow.

If the Tory party choose to ignore the precedent of their founding father's and subsequent Tory governments they could do so only temporarily. A General Election is not only the preferred outcome for the nation after tomorrow but a well trod parliamentary precedent. And after there's been a 100+ (some politicos saying 200) vote defeat, it becomes not just inevitable but self fulfilling. The end, as they say, is nigh.

[mercalia]

the latest fear tactic - no loo rolls

hitting it where it wipes. back to using leaves?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-46865944/could-no-deal-brexit-lead-to-loo-roll-logjam

[mjr]

Desperate desperate Vote Leave's Project Fear, claiming there won't be enough loo rolls in an attempt to get May's mad deal approved!

[Mick F]

I've been saying we need a GE for ages. Get rid of the Tory government.
Coalition would be good.
PR would be good too.