** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[kwackers]

No deal if deal voted down.

As you said - your opinion - but nothing of the kind! Do you honestly imagine that the entire Labour Party, the LibDems, the SNP, Plaid Cymru, Green, all voted for No Deal?

Just pop outside for a moment and watch those pigs winging their way towards the distant hills....

Brexit happening probably now depends on Labour getting in. If that happens we'll get a soft brexit, no borders, customs union etc etc (assuming he can get it past parliament).

All other scenarios give the Tories one of two options:
A watered down brexit not unlike what Labour would offer or a peoples vote.
Most likely result of a peoples vote imo is no brexit, second most likely is May's gets voted in again (and if that happened I reckon parliament would support it second time round).

A hard brexit is so far off the table you'd need binoculars to see it.

[661-Pete]

Confidence vote: think of turkeys and Crimbo.

But which are the turkeys?

I don't know how the figures add up - I suppose it depends on those DUP lot. Sinn Fein historically never take their seats, so they'll be absent. Tulip Siddiq (Lab) is expecting a baby at any moment, she may be absent. Fiona Onasanya was recently expelled from the Labour party after a criminal conviction - will she show up? Maybe there are others?

Who else remembers the pitiful case of Alfred Broughton? A Labour MP, in 1979, when critically ill, he still offered to make it to Westminster to vote in the No Confidence motion of 28 March that year. But Callaghan vetoed his offer - and lost by one vote. Broughton died a few days later.

As I said, I don't know what will happen tomorrow. Although I have plenty of issues with Corbyn (obviously), I'd prefer it if the motion were carried and followed by a GE. Gives us time to sit back and consider things - and of course the parties will have to put out manifestoes.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
How do you turn back the will of the people as voted, not what you think a R2 will vote?
You cant.

That's the big problem.

IF Jeremy gets to be PM or even pm in a coalition will he go for R2

He will want leader on his terms his way, dodging the R2 question.

Brexit will still exist to be sorted.

I forgot MP's voted to implement A50.

[kwackers]

Hi,
How do you turn back the will of the people as voted, not what you think a R2 will vote?
You cant.

That's the big problem.

It's not a big problem at all.
The "will of the people" is what they want now, not what they wanted over two years ago.

It's not a difficult leap to make to realise that if folk still want brexit then they'd vote for it again, if they don't then they won't.

If you genuinely want the will of the people then you give the people the choice.
It's absolutely fair and this time they're a bit more aware of the truth.
The only reason to deny them that is if you're afraid they'll change their mind, but denying them that chance isn't fair either.

[661-Pete]

How do you turn back the will of the people as voted, not what you think a R2 will vote?

Aren't you forgetting that a lot of voters who voted in 2016 aren't around any more? And that a lot of new voters have reached the age of 18 since?

And even of those voted then and are still alive - haven't they learnt rather a lot in the interim - which they weren't aware of back then?

About time we buried this absurd trope "will of the people" once and for all. All it signifies is "will of the people as sampled on 23 June 2016" and no more.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

Hi,
How do you turn back the will of the people as voted, not what you think a R2 will vote?
You cant.

That's the big problem.

It's not a big problem at all.
The "will of the people" is what they want now, not what they wanted over two years ago.

It's not a difficult leap to make to realise that if folk still want brexit then they'd vote for it again, if they don't then they won't.

If you genuinely want the will of the people then you give the people the choice.
It's absolutely fair and this time they're a bit more aware of the truth.
The only reason to deny them that is if you're afraid they'll change their mind, but denying them that chance isn't fair either.

No problem bring on R2.
But how do you get it.

No fear if R2 voted to stay, I would quietly accept the decision, can that be said of the current remainers in these posts?

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

How do you turn back the will of the people as voted, not what you think a R2 will vote?

Aren't you forgetting that a lot of voters who voted in 2016 aren't around any more? And that a lot of new voters have reached the age of 18 since?

And even of those voted then and are still alive - haven't they learnt rather a lot in the interim - which they weren't aware of back then?

About time we buried this absurd trope "will of the people" once and for all. All it signifies is "will of the people as sampled on 23 June 2016" and no more.

So bring on R2............if you can..........Jeremy is not saying that now is he................never seen him so loud but what will he do for R2?
I will fully accept the will of the people from this day on...........will you.............

[661-Pete]

So bring on R2............if you can

I'm not saying I have that power. It's down to others - however atrophied they may be.

Nor have you the power to stop R2 coming about.

Nor have either of us the power to determine its outcome. We can merely cast one vote each. Wait and see.

[Cours]

Confidence vote: think of turkeys and Crimbo.

I think it's infinitely more complex now. They can't get rid of May until next December. She's going to be pretty toxic after tonight. So .. How to get rid and get moving with another version of Brexit? Back a no confidence vote and start from scratch, having revoked A50 first.

The Tories have a long tradition of going with no confidence votes when they have brought the country to a national crisis. Which is where we are now. I think the government will fall its on own sword shortly, oust May and run a GE campaign with probably an unusual candidate on delivery of Brexit, and somehow manoeuvring round this pesky back stop. If they run a good campaign they can ditch the DUP and a lot of problems gone with them.

[mjr]

Confidence vote: think of turkeys and Crimbo.

I think it's infinitely more complex now. They can't get rid of May until next December. She's going to be pretty toxic after tonight. So .. How to get rid and get moving with another version of Brexit? Back a no confidence vote and start from scratch, having revoked A50 first.

The Tories have a long tradition of going with no confidence votes when they have brought the country to a national crisis. Which is where we are now. I think the government will fall its on own sword shortly, oust May and run a GE campaign with probably an unusual candidate on delivery of Brexit, and somehow manoeuvring round this pesky back stop. If they run a good campaign they can ditch the DUP and a lot of problems gone with them.

Is there any way to oust May before December without rebooting the party, Chirac-style?

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

So bring on R2............if you can

I'm not saying I have that power. It's down to others - however atrophied they may be.

Nor have you the power to stop R2 coming about.

Nor have either of us the power to determine its outcome. We can merely cast one vote each. Wait and see.

Never said I did.
R2 tomorrow would sort it out, I am happy to vote leave again.
But then what way forward.

[mercalia]

Confidence vote: think of turkeys and Crimbo.

I think it's infinitely more complex now. They can't get rid of May until next December. She's going to be pretty toxic after tonight. So .. How to get rid and get moving with another version of Brexit? Back a no confidence vote and start from scratch, having revoked A50 first.

The Tories have a long tradition of going with no confidence votes when they have brought the country to a national crisis. Which is where we are now. I think the government will fall its on own sword shortly, oust May and run a GE campaign with probably an unusual candidate on delivery of Brexit, and somehow manoeuvring round this pesky back stop. If they run a good campaign they can ditch the DUP and a lot of problems gone with them.

well the DUP are the people who have understood the toxic nature of the backstop as written into the exit process? so be fair they have done the country a service, highlighting it ? As I said in an earlier post quoting an Irish journalist, the backstop we have is the equivlent of insisting that the IRA should have been requierd to disarme before the Good Friday Agreement could be ratified. ie to have done so would have meant the GFA would have failed - just as the Brexit agreement has just failed

[NickWi]

I look forward to R2. The question will be not remain or leave, that has already been decided in R1. The question has to be, on what terms do you want to leave?

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

I look forward to R2. The question will be not remain or leave, that has already been decided in R1. The question has to be, on what terms do you want to leave?

Terms that the Remaining EU would not like I guess.

[PDQ Mobile]

No fear if R2 voted to stay, I would quietly accept the decision, can that be said of the current remainers in these posts?

My dear chap, it's called a passionate belief that Brexit is a massive mistake.
That it will negatively affect a great many ordinary people. For what??

If you believe in something then you stand up and be counted, even when things go against you.
Polite debate and protest is healthy.