** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Vorpal »

broadway wrote:And since you didn't take the hint, what is this to do with Brexit?

The fish puns were better.
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mercalia
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mercalia »

mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:
broadway wrote:
And since you didn't take the hint, what is this to do with Brexit?


the EU will still be relying on UK forces when we leave, they should remember that

How do you figure that out? If you're on about NATO countries, the UK may have about 200k active military personnel, which is similar to Germany, but France has about 225k, Turkey over 900k and the USA 1.4m... We are just one good player, not the key.

And while Germany doesn't yet meet the % spending guideline, it now spends more than the UK in absolute terms, despite starting from a lower level.



well if the article is to be believed the German Army is in a sorry state equipment wise and not fit for purpose( even worse than ours?) ? The Uk ( and France ) are the only 2 nuclear powers within Europe. Turkey I dont think could be relied upon these days? And the USA under Trump - well we all know his views?

" By the end of 2017, all Germany's submarines were in drydock for repairs, while in recent months there have been periods where none of the air force's 14 A400M transport planes are airworthy.

The litany of disrepair continues through fighter planes, tanks, helicopters and ships lamed by bad planning and a lack of spare parts."

https://www.thelocal.de/20180220/underequipped-german-army-ever-less-ready-for-battle-damning-report-concludes
broadway
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - or whatever...

Post by broadway »

661-Pete wrote:
broadway wrote:And since you didn't take the hint, what is this to do with Brexit?
Does it matter whether posts on this thread have anything to do with Brexit?

I'd have thought that after 355 pages of the most tedious bickering, mostly about that dismal topic, a bit of diversion is light relief.... :wink:


Oh, so it can be I don't think much of [insert European country] thread, nice.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Vorpal »

mercalia wrote:well if the article is to be believed the German Army is in a sorry state equipment wise and not fit for purpose( even worse than ours?) ? The Uk ( and France ) are the only 2 nuclear powers within Europe. Turkey I dont think could be relied upon these days? And the USA under Trump - well we all know his views?

" By the end of 2017, all Germany's submarines were in drydock for repairs, while in recent months there have been periods where none of the air force's 14 A400M transport planes are airworthy.

The litany of disrepair continues through fighter planes, tanks, helicopters and ships lamed by bad planning and a lack of spare parts."

https://www.thelocal.de/20180220/underequipped-german-army-ever-less-ready-for-battle-damning-report-concludes

The Local is generally not to be believed. What report were they referencing? They didn't even give the title, much less an actual reference to it.
a report published Tuesday
tells us exactly nothing. :roll:
The problem with German submarines, it seems, is poor management of spare parts. https://www.stern.de/digital/technik/al ... 91852.html
Their former stockpile has been replaced with 'manufacture on demand'. Which might have been ok, until 4 submarines need the same long lead-time part at once.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by PDQ Mobile »

mercalia wrote:well if the article is to be believed the German Army is in a sorry state equipment wise and not fit for purpose( even worse than ours?) ? The Uk ( and France ) are the only 2 nuclear powers within Europe. Turkey I dont think could be relied upon these days? And the USA under Trump - well we all know his views?

" By the end of 2017, all Germany's submarines were in drydock for repairs, while in recent months there have been periods where none of the air force's 14 A400M transport planes are airworthy.

The litany of disrepair continues through fighter planes, tanks, helicopters and ships lamed by bad planning and a lack of spare parts."

https://www.thelocal.de/20180220/underequipped-german-army-ever-less-ready-for-battle-damning-report-concludes


Well in my experience the German people are very good at maintaining and fettling machines.
More like Britain used to be 50 years ago.
It's a cultural thing there to keep everthing well serviced and clean.
So I actually think the article is propaganda rubbish.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by pwa »

PDQ Mobile wrote:
mercalia wrote:well if the article is to be believed the German Army is in a sorry state equipment wise and not fit for purpose( even worse than ours?) ? The Uk ( and France ) are the only 2 nuclear powers within Europe. Turkey I dont think could be relied upon these days? And the USA under Trump - well we all know his views?

" By the end of 2017, all Germany's submarines were in drydock for repairs, while in recent months there have been periods where none of the air force's 14 A400M transport planes are airworthy.

The litany of disrepair continues through fighter planes, tanks, helicopters and ships lamed by bad planning and a lack of spare parts."

https://www.thelocal.de/20180220/underequipped-german-army-ever-less-ready-for-battle-damning-report-concludes


Well in my experience the German people are very good at maintaining and fettling machines.
More like Britain used to be 50 years ago.
It's a cultural thing there to keep everthing well serviced and clean.
So I actually think the article is propaganda rubbish.


While it is true to say that lots of fine engineering comes from Germany, I've had German manufactured goods that have been absolute rubbish. My current VW car is distinctly average, rather than good. So German infallibility in engineering is a myth.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by PDQ Mobile »

With respect, it's not what I said.

I said they are very conscientious maintainers of machines. And infrastructure generally.
They believe if you maintain it well it will be cheaper in the long run.
FWIW personally I agree.

I practice what I preach and I live well as a consequence.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Cyril Haearn »

The "serious" (?) German media reports that the army is short of thousands of officers, at one time six out of six U-boats were out of service, protective vests and underpants are short too
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mercalia »

Vorpal wrote:
mercalia wrote:well if the article is to be believed the German Army is in a sorry state equipment wise and not fit for purpose( even worse than ours?) ? The Uk ( and France ) are the only 2 nuclear powers within Europe. Turkey I dont think could be relied upon these days? And the USA under Trump - well we all know his views?

" By the end of 2017, all Germany's submarines were in drydock for repairs, while in recent months there have been periods where none of the air force's 14 A400M transport planes are airworthy.

The litany of disrepair continues through fighter planes, tanks, helicopters and ships lamed by bad planning and a lack of spare parts."

https://www.thelocal.de/20180220/underequipped-german-army-ever-less-ready-for-battle-damning-report-concludes

The Local is generally not to be believed. What report were they referencing? They didn't even give the title, much less an actual reference to it.
a report published Tuesday
tells us exactly nothing. :roll:
The problem with German submarines, it seems, is poor management of spare parts. https://www.stern.de/digital/technik/al ... 91852.html
Their former stockpile has been replaced with 'manufacture on demand'. Which might have been ok, until 4 submarines need the same long lead-time part at once.



my reading of it was the report was from the parliamentary armed forces commissioner Hans-Peter Bartels who gave a press conference ( as reported)
well the poor management of spare parts seems to confirm the underspending claim? what next manufacture on demand of bullets and shells for the guns and tanks? Ruskie pls wait until i make some more bullets :roll:

I just wonder whether the "German Miracle" in the EU is due to cutting corners elsewhere?
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Vorpal »

Cyril Haearn wrote:The "serious" (?) German media reports that the army is short of thousands of officers, at one time six out of six U-boats were out of service, protective vests and underpants are short too

It doesn't help when they run the u-boats onto Norwegian rocks. :wink:
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Bonefishblues »

Cyril Haearn wrote:The "serious" (?) German media reports that the army is short of thousands of officers, at one time six out of six U-boats were out of service, protective vests and underpants are short too

I guess that chafing could be a real problem.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by reohn2 »

Bonefishblues wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:The "serious" (?) German media reports that the army is short of thousands of officers, at one time six out of six U-boats were out of service, protective vests and underpants are short too

I guess that chafing could be a real problem.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by mjr »

mercalia wrote:
mjr wrote:
mercalia wrote:
the EU will still be relying on UK forces when we leave, they should remember that

How do you figure that out? If you're on about NATO countries, the UK may have about 200k active military personnel, which is similar to Germany, but France has about 225k, Turkey over 900k and the USA 1.4m... We are just one good player, not the key.

And while Germany doesn't yet meet the % spending guideline, it now spends more than the UK in absolute terms, despite starting from a lower level.



well if the article is to be believed the German Army is in a sorry state equipment wise and not fit for purpose( even worse than ours?) ? The Uk ( and France ) are the only 2 nuclear powers within Europe. Turkey I dont think could be relied upon these days? And the USA under Trump - well we all know his views?

Ah, so you think the EU can't rely on NATO. So how do you think they're going to be relying on the UK then? We supported merging the defence-orientated Western European Union (its flag was a U of yellow stars on blue) into the EU - are you expecting something like it be split out again?

And to answer the ()s, the German military doesn't seem in that much worse a state to ours (submarines aren't army BTW) - for example, while we might have working subs (as far as we know), we've two aircraft carriers that have few barely-suitable aircraft ordered for them with one still in trials until 2020 and the other 2023, having had none since 2014. I expect if push came to shove, Britain could find some solutions, although it could get expensive, but I expect Germany could too.
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Vorpal »

And now a bus with an anti-Brexit advert has been banned from (parking in) Oxford. Apparently, the roads are no place for politics :roll:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-43141927
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Post by Bonefishblues »

Everything is banned from parking in Oxford!
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