And its conclusion?
"So, at the moment it looks as if there are near no easy solutions - especially one that would be acceptable to the EU, the UK government and the majority of MPs."
Which is pretty much where we were before I read it.
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Brexit gets less sane with every passing day.
More guessing of opinions of 17.4 million voters?
Oldjohnw wrote:Now that we are so close to falling over a cliff edge in a most remarkable act of national self-harm, I wonder if we might at last get some indication if which of our UK laws were forced upon us, and how at present we are unable to make our own laws.
mr bajokoses wrote:They must be very sure of the benefits. Perhaps mercalia could list some.
mr bajokoses wrote:mr bajokoses wrote:They must be very sure of the benefits. Perhaps mercalia could list some.
Mercalia, have you remembered any yet?
Doesn't affect the way the appliance will run, but not to be recommended on any appliance with a 3-pin plug. Some double-insulated appliances with only a symmetric 2-pin connector (e.g. lawn mowers), it's not possible to control which lead is 'live' - and I don't suppose it matters, they always have a 2-pole on-off switch.roubaixtuesday wrote:The appliance sees the *difference* between the two. 'Cos it's AC, that difference is the same regardless as to which way around the two are wired.
661-Pete wrote:This reminds me of the experience of a former colleague which he once related to me. He'd bought an old second-hand record player, and, being a qualified electrical engineer, he thought he'd just take it apart and check it over before using it. He discovered that the appliance, despite having a metal case, had no earth lead: instead, someone had soldered a wire between the neutral supply lead and the casing. Perhaps someone can explain why this made the player a death-trap?
Of course it does ......... it's a circuit.661-Pete wrote:.....the neutral carries the same current as the live.
In itself, it wouldn't be.661-Pete wrote:This reminds me of the experience of a former colleague which he once related to me. He'd bought an old second-hand record player, and, being a qualified electrical engineer, he thought he'd just take it apart and check it over before using it. He discovered that the appliance, despite having a metal case, had no earth lead: instead, someone had soldered a wire between the neutral supply lead and the casing. Perhaps someone can explain why this made the player a death-trap?
Mick F wrote:Neutral shorted to earth isn't dangerous unless you have another fault or a connection issue somewhere else at the same time.
661-Pete wrote:This reminds me of the experience of a former colleague which he once related to me. He'd bought an old second-hand record player, and, being a qualified electrical engineer, he thought he'd just take it apart and check it over before using it. He discovered that the appliance, despite having a metal case, had no earth lead: instead, someone had soldered a wire between the neutral supply lead and the casing. Perhaps someone can explain why this made the player a death-trap?
OK: I'll explain. If the appliance is switched on, and the plug is partially pulled out such that the neutral pin breaks contact first but the live pin doesn't, the casing will now be at full live potential. If you touch the casing and something earthed, your body will complete the circuit between live and earth. Draw a diagram if you don't believe me.Mick F wrote:In itself, it wouldn't be.661-Pete wrote:This reminds me of the experience of a former colleague which he once related to me. He'd bought an old second-hand record player, and, being a qualified electrical engineer, he thought he'd just take it apart and check it over before using it. He discovered that the appliance, despite having a metal case, had no earth lead: instead, someone had soldered a wire between the neutral supply lead and the casing. Perhaps someone can explain why this made the player a death-trap?
The whole idea of a good earth-point, is that any short to earth would go directly into the ground, and not into the ground via your body.
Neutral shorted to earth isn't dangerous unless you have another fault or a connection issue somewhere else at the same time.
I remember that too. My father used to tinker with our old B&W valve-based TV, and I remember the warning label. He claimed he could withstand a shock at full mains voltage, but I don't know if he was bragging.kwackers wrote:In the days of old valve TV's and round 3 pin plugs it was common practice for one side of the supply (usually neutral) to be connected directly to the metal chassis of the TV.
As an 8 year old tinkerer I discovered that shortly before I spotted the little sign that said "Warning Chassis may be Live".
They are. It's a fact.bovlomov wrote:On the subject of UK and rEU plugs - perhaps it's prejudice, but I'm sure ours are better than theirs.
Mick F wrote:Neutral shorted to earth isn't dangerous unless you have another fault or a connection issue somewhere else at the same time.
Of course I believe you. I am - or was - an electronics and electrical engineer.OK: I'll explain. If the appliance is switched on, and the plug is partially pulled out such that the neutral pin breaks contact first but the live pin doesn't, the casing will now be at full live potential. If you touch the casing and something earthed, your body will complete the circuit between live and earth. Draw a diagram if you don't believe me..
Mick F wrote:Thread drift?
Wonderful!!They are. It's a fact.bovlomov wrote:On the subject of UK and rEU plugs - perhaps it's prejudice, but I'm sure ours are better than theirs.
The main good point about ours is that the live and neutral holes aren't exposed. The shutter system opens them when the long earth pin goes in. The Continental sockets are open holes.
Another good point is the size and cross-sectional area of the conductor pins and earth pin. The Continental ones are just thin circular pins.