** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[Vorpal]

Sorry .. i must be having a senior moment ... any datum or data that has the word "Wikipedia" attached to it does not usually fill me with confidence as to its accuracy ,,

Most entries in Wikipedia list original sources these days. The ones you need to be wary of are those marked 'needs references'. I actually find that Wikipedia is pretty good for getting a list of references to begin my own research.

[reohn2]

As if it needs posting but I will anyway:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38557838

[mjr]

Probably the biggest group is the non-voters.

Is it ...
UK and Northern Ireland Population - Vote Remain + Vote Leave = Non Voters ... anyone want to take on this terribly complex equation ??

Uk Population as those registered to vote. Stats available online i suspect ....

UK population is much larger than those registered to vote. For some reason, several large groups of residents directly affected by this decision were denied a vote, including 16-18-year-olds and non-UK EU citizens who have been paying their taxes here for many years. 26% voted remain, 27% voted leave, 20% of those who could have voted didn't... but 27% weren't allowed to vote. Majority? What majority?

[pwa]

As if it needs posting but I will anyway:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38557838

It is one of those phrases or words only used by people on one side of a debate, partly with the intention of undermining the other side. "Populism" is used in much the same way. There is something distasteful about it. It is a way of belittling other people. Would it not be much better to try to understand the other side, and to ask what drives people to opt for radical paths? Some politicians need to ask themselves how they have failed people so badly that they feel a need to reject what has previously been mainstream.

[pwa]

Probably the biggest group is the non-voters.

Is it ...
UK and Northern Ireland Population - Vote Remain + Vote Leave = Non Voters ... anyone want to take on this terribly complex equation ??

Uk Population as those registered to vote. Stats available online i suspect ....

UK population is much larger than those registered to vote. For some reason, several large groups of residents directly affected by this decision were denied a vote, including 16-18-year-olds and non-UK EU citizens who have been paying their taxes here for many years. 26% voted remain, 27% voted leave, 20% of those who could have voted didn't... but 27% weren't allowed to vote. Majority? What majority?

And would that have been your argument had Remain won? Or do you just question results when they come up with an answer you don't like?

(Genuine question)

[landsurfer]

For some reason, several large groups of residents directly affected by this decision were denied a vote, including 16-18-year-olds and non-UK EU citizens who have been paying their taxes here for many years.

Good point, and what about the 14 - 16 year olds and the 12 -14 year olds... imagine them being denied a vote ....... really.....

[landsurfer]

Is it ...
UK and Northern Ireland Population - Vote Remain + Vote Leave = Non Voters ... anyone want to take on this terribly complex equation ??

Uk Population as those registered to vote. Stats available online i suspect ....

UK population is much larger than those registered to vote. For some reason, several large groups of residents directly affected by this decision were denied a vote, including 16-18-year-olds and non-UK EU citizens who have been paying their taxes here for many years. 26% voted remain, 27% voted leave, 20% of those who could have voted didn't... but 27% weren't allowed to vote. Majority? What majority?

And would that have been your argument had Remain won? Or do you just question results when they come up with an answer you don't like?

(Genuine question)

What argument ..... Genuine answer .... ????

[mjr]

And would that have been your argument had Remain won? Or do you just question results when they come up with an answer you don't like?

I was questioning the restricted electorate long before the vote, including writing to my MP about votes at 16 (which was a co-op group campaign a few years ago), but I'm not sure whether I posted about it here, in the other place or on Faceberk.

[blackbike]

The increasingly ludicrous and desperate arguments used by many Remainers to claim that the referendum result is invalid are beginning to make me doubt if they are as clever and educated as they modestly claim to be.

[Boyd]

And would that have been your argument had Remain won? Or do you just question results when they come up with an answer you don't like?

I was questioning the restricted electorate long before the vote, including writing to my MP about votes at 16 (which was a co-op group campaign a few years ago), but I'm not sure whether I posted about it here, in the other place or on Faceberk.

There has to be minimum voting age why not 18? Why should you limit it to 16? 18 is where parliament set it, move on. The worse part of your argument is belief they would bother voting. The majority of 18 year olds don't vote they register as it is the top way of getting credit particularly for those with no credit history. You also assume that they believe that staying in the EU is best. No doubt there middle class politically correct teachers tell them that everyday but it doesn't follow that believe it.

[Boyd]

Probably the biggest group is the non-voters.

Is it ...
UK and Northern Ireland Population - Vote Remain + Vote Leave = Non Voters ... anyone want to take on this terribly complex equation ??

Uk Population as those registered to vote. Stats available online i suspect ....

UK population is much larger than those registered to vote. For some reason, several large groups of residents directly affected by this decision were denied a vote, non-UK EU citizens who have been paying their taxes here for many years.

Why **** should foreigners get to vote? How do you know they pay there taxes? The majority of the ones I know never earn enough to pay taxes or only just go over the tax allowance before going home. Some no doubt go to other countries and use there tax allowance there.
PS I have done it

[pwa]

And would that have been your argument had Remain won? Or do you just question results when they come up with an answer you don't like?

I was questioning the restricted electorate long before the vote, including writing to my MP about votes at 16 (which was a co-op group campaign a few years ago), but I'm not sure whether I posted about it here, in the other place or on Faceberk.

Fair point. But we all voted with the mechanism given to us, and I was ready to accept defeat gracefully if my side lost. That's what we do in democracies.

[Boyd]

Why has there been a 20% increase in people using A and E This year? Nothing to do with EU immigrants? Who often don't speak english so the NHS has to supply an interpreter. I note no TV stations are suggesting that as possibility. Not politically correct?

[mjr]

There has to be minimum voting age why not 18? Why should you limit it to 16? 18 is where parliament set it, move on.

Like before the referendum, everyone was happy with "EU membership is what parliament decided, move on"?

It's a democracy. Past decisions are subject to review. 16 year olds can vote in Scottish elections and could vote in the indyref. Until 1970, the UK voting age was 21. Would you have been among those in the 1960s telling MPs not to even consider looking at it?

The worse part of your argument...

OK, stop right there. The argument I was making was simply that most of the UK population didn't vote, to confirm what Cyril Haearn and landsurfer were posting. All you Wrexiters can leave it there, please, and not hijack it for Project Delusion by suggesting it's some Machiavellian new challenge to the result's legitimacy. The legitimacy of a hard Brexit based on a 52-48 voter split has been challenged since the day the result was declared, even by some Leave supporters.

[Psamathe]

..... For some reason, several large groups of residents directly affected by this decision were denied a vote, including 16-18-year-olds and non-UK EU citizens who have been paying their taxes here for many years....

I think the exclusion of the 16-18 year olds was very wrong given how they are the ones who will be living with the long term consequences. According to many reports, it was the older generations (pensioners) who tended to vote leave and younger generations who tended to vote remain. And I believe that even my own age group (60's) will not suffer the main impacts of our leaving the EU as the worst will be long term. So one interpretation is that those who will not be around to suffer the impacts voted for something contrary to the wishes of those who will bear the impacts.

And if Scotland includes 16-18 year olds in major referendum about the future/independence of the country then certainly the same should apply to the UK as a whole.

Ian