Macron was elected largely because so many folk were fed up with the conventional right- & left-wing parties and despised the extremists. He's trying to get the country back in order economically and environmentally, but being a somewhat bumptious little squit he went at it too fast and treated his critics with contempt and cynicism.* He's learning now, but the damage has been done.
I'd vote for him again but I don't have to like him.
* e.g. when he put a virtual freeze on pensions and then bumped up the social contributions pensioners have to pay, he was asked in an interview "What are you going to say to pensioners when they complain about the damage you've done to their income?" he replied "I'll say thanks".
** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Have we got time for another cuppa?
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
pete75 wrote:al_yrpal wrote:roubaixtuesday wrote:
The current efforts are not to get a deal, but to try and ensure the other side gets the blame whilst appearing to be trying to get a deal.
As your post shows, this can be very effective.
That assertion is just plain rubbish, not based on fact and awash with self interest from someone who has decided to live in the Superstate. Yes, if Barney digs his toes in when with goodwill a deal can be done he will share the blame. The vast majority of French people think he is a dead loss anyway. I wonder why. Ask the yellow vests..
Al
The vast majority of British people think Johnson is a dead loss too.
Why can't you realise that anything bad resulting from Brexit will be entirely the fault of the UK. It was a voluntary decision to leave.
Why are you now so keen on a deal anyway? Perhaps you're starting to have a realistic view of Brexit and realise it's more than likely to cause great harm to the UK. Bit late for that now though Al.
Why am I keen on a deal? Because there is no such thing as no deal. We have to trade with EU nations and they have to trade with us. We will all get there eventually, compromise on both sides. There will be short term harm sure and then...who knows. I think Boris like Macron is way out of his depth as PM, but we will see...
Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
al_yrpal wrote:pete75 wrote:al_yrpal wrote:
That assertion is just plain rubbish, not based on fact and awash with self interest from someone who has decided to live in the Superstate. Yes, if Barney digs his toes in when with goodwill a deal can be done he will share the blame. The vast majority of French people think he is a dead loss anyway. I wonder why. Ask the yellow vests..
Al
The vast majority of British people think Johnson is a dead loss too.
Why can't you realise that anything bad resulting from Brexit will be entirely the fault of the UK. It was a voluntary decision to leave.
Why are you now so keen on a deal anyway? Perhaps you're starting to have a realistic view of Brexit and realise it's more than likely to cause great harm to the UK. Bit late for that now though Al.
Why am I keen on a deal? Because there is no such thing as no deal. We have to trade with EU nations and they have to trade with us. We will all get there eventually, compromise on both sides. There will be short term harm sure and then...who knows. I think Boris like Macron is way out of his depth as PM, but we will see...
Al
An eventual deal? Really? There are many in the cabinet who think WTO terms are fine.
Much as you probably dislike it I'm glad you've come to realise there has to be trade between the UK and the EU. Well done!
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
I have never disliked any trade deal with the EU? My objections to the EU are nothing to do with trade and never have been. I welcome free trade, and thats largely how things will eventually end up IMO. What I dislike is unreasonable damaging protectionism.
AL
AL
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
al_yrpal wrote:I have never disliked any trade deal with the EU? My objections to the EU are nothing to do with trade and never have been. I welcome free trade, and thats largely how things will eventually end up IMO. What I dislike is unreasonable damaging protectionism.
Unless we unilaterally open up our borders, we are bound to have some sort of protectionism. That's what any trade deal will demand.
Worth remembering, EU protectionism assigned zero tariffs to most exports from the poorest countries.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
al_yrpal wrote:I have never disliked any trade deal with the EU? My objections to the EU are nothing to do with trade and never have been. I welcome free trade, and thats largely how things will eventually end up IMO. What I dislike is unreasonable damaging protectionism.
AL
The amount of goods and food from outside the EU on any supermarket shelf give solid contradiction to the protectionist statement.
Solid examples have never been forthcoming though all these long pages.
I think other reasons that you have given in the past are closer to the truth.
Immigration and the inflation of house prices in the SE, considered by yourself to be caused by that immigration.
And the undercutting of wages by those self same workers from over the Channel.
Profits from the same effects however are considered good to pocket.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
To be honest, that could easily be a description of myself. And no way am I of like persuasion to Al!kwackers wrote:Al no longer works, he has savings and just wants cheap food and other goodies.
Maybe the difference is, I want good food, not just cheap. And I want it for everyone, not just myself and Mrs P. And a lot of it comes from our EU neighbours. Not a whiff of chlorine in it!
And the borders are already open. What will be the state of affairs after B-day I shudder to think...Opening the borders is his dream.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
661-Pete wrote:To be honest, that could easily be a description of myself. And no way am I of like persuasion to Al!kwackers wrote:Al no longer works, he has savings and just wants cheap food and other goodies.
Maybe the difference is, I want good food, not just cheap. And I want it for everyone, not just myself and Mrs P. And a lot of it comes from our EU neighbours. Not a whiff of chlorine in it!And the borders are already open. What will be the state of affairs after B-day I shudder to think...Opening the borders is his dream.
Food is food imo, I can't be bothered with the faff of chasing it down when I could be otherwise engaged in my workshop.
I can survive brexit no problem even though it's cost me more than a few quid so far.
I'm opposed to it because I think it'll be bad for the country and in particular for those at the bottom.
For some bizarre reason even though I have an inane dislike of people in general I also think the world needs to be fairer and I don't believe closing our borders and withdrawing whilst simultaneously being bullied by the big boys will make life fairer (or safer, or prevent global warming or indeed any of the elements of the approaching 'perfect storm' which are going to need a good level of international cooperation to ride out).
My inane dislike though does allow me the pleasure of being able to sit back, enjoy the spectacle and contemplate turkeys and Christmas.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
Bizarre!
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
al_yrpal wrote:Bizarre!
Not half as bizarre as what "making our own rules" amounts to in brexit land.
I look forward to us being told what we'll need to do in order to get a trade deal with all the big players - but I guess we can for the time being throw our weight around with the smaller ones. Everyone kicks downwards - the new world order.
Plus, the way you guys go from "it's going to be great", "easiest deal in history" etc etc to "There will be short term harm".
How much longer before you finally admit that there's no chance of things improving in your lifetime?
Not only are you guys buying into "project fear" but you now seem to be trying to own it and sell it as something that was obvious all along and that you knew would happen.
Taking this paradigm shift to it's logical conclusion (as you can read yourself on various leave forums) then apparently it doesn't matter that our economy takes a hit and we do end up poorer because being poorer is a price worth paying.
Now THAT is bizarre.
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
kwackers wrote: apparently it doesn't matter that our economy takes a hit and we do end up poorer because being poorer is a price worth paying.
I would respect that argument from people who were making that clear from the outset. Not as a last resort from people who have lost every other argument.
Was it Rees Mogg who thought we'd be better off after 50 years, and Digby Jones who thought it would be a century? Or was it the other way around?
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
bovlomov wrote:al_yrpal wrote:I have never disliked any trade deal with the EU? My objections to the EU are nothing to do with trade and never have been. I welcome free trade, and thats largely how things will eventually end up IMO. What I dislike is unreasonable damaging protectionism.
Unless we unilaterally open up our borders, we are bound to have some sort of protectionism. That's what any trade deal will demand.
Worth remembering, EU protectionism assigned zero tariffs to most exports from the poorest countries.
A bit like the much-praised US deals then?
Demands that we change laws, don't pass new ones, open the NHS to profiteering from US drug companies and change the NHS to an insurance-funded system, and as a finale drop food standards
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
I've thought for a long time that the only reason for pressing ahead with this madness is because "the people spoke." There is nothing else left. The cupboard is empty. The proposers are naked.
John
Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'
I have a challenge for Tim Martin.
He is supremely confident that prices are going to drop, there will be no food shortages and no price increases...
OK - put your money where your mouth is, and at least guarantee no price rises in the next year and even promise a 5% reduction
He is supremely confident that prices are going to drop, there will be no food shortages and no price increases...
OK - put your money where your mouth is, and at least guarantee no price rises in the next year and even promise a 5% reduction