** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[PDQ Mobile]

Kwackers is quite correct about Switzerland, it took over 30 years of negotiation to reach the present position.
Switzerland is a member of the Schengen area and has freedom of movement.

[Psamathe]

Looks like Frankfurt is winning when it comes to "moving" large parts of The City from London to the EU.

... many of Europe's largest financial institutions have already announced their intention to relocate jobs here.
...
Many banks' patience with the protracted Brexit negotiations, through which regulatory frameworks for foreign exchange trading and conditions for access to the Single Market must be thrashed out, seems to have run out.

Morgan Stanley, Citigroup and Standard Chartered are among those who have chosen Frankfurt as their new European base, while others such as Goldman Sachs and UBS have promised to move thousands of jobs to the German hub.
....

Whilst they are "Bankers", their activities do generate a lot of income for the public purse so maybe instead of the £350m a week for the NHS maybe we'll have to be looking at further cuts for the NHS as the tax revenue reduces from loss of tax from The City as well as from our disastrous economy (we are already well at the bottom on growth of all EU member states! https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/08/uk-economy-falls-to-bottom-of-eu-growth-league).

Ian

[reohn2]

But at least we'll have control over our sovereignty
The words "shambles" "little" and "england" spring readily to mind.......
Of course some peoples view may differ

[blackbike]

But at least we'll have control over our sovereignty
The words "shambles" "little" and "england" spring readily to mind.......
Of course some peoples view may differ

Mine do.

I think Brexit is wonderful and I see no reason why the UK needs a parliament in two foreign countries to oversee our law making or why we need a foreign court to be the ultimate legal authority in our country.

The vast majority of the world's people live in countries which do not need such foreign interference in their domestic decisions and we are about to rejoin that majority.

Yippee!

[1gunsalute]

Anyone got any views on Labour's new policy of staying in the single market during a transition period?

The papers have described it as a U-turn but it seems to me a logical consequence of their manifesto policy of prioritising jobs and the economy, now we know that we can't have our cake and eat it. Certainly it's better than supporting the Tories' cliff-edge disaster Brexit.

[reohn2]

Anyone got any views on Labour's new policy of staying in the single market during a transition period?

The papers have described it as a U-turn but it seems to me a logical consequence of their manifesto policy of prioritising jobs and the economy, now we know that we can't have our cake and eat it. Certainly it's better than supporting the Tories' cliff-edge disaster Brexit.

+1

[Psamathe]

....
The papers have described it as a U-turn but it seems to me a logical consequence of their manifesto policy of prioritising jobs and the economy, now we know that we can't have our cake and eat it. Certainly it's better than supporting the Tories' cliff-edge disaster Brexit.

Press make a big thing about U-turns invariably presenting it as a sign of weakness. However I think the true situation must depend on the reason for the U-turn; U-turns made because of lobbying by party donors or internal party politics or because of previous failure to recognise facts, etc. is more likely to be sign of weakness than a change of policy after the impacts of the policy become apparent.

So St. Theresa doing a U-turn in her e.g. worker representation of boards and addressing excessive board room pay e.g. her U-turn about limiting energy prices, etc., etc. is nothing more than a weak leader finding it necessary to pander to ex-public school "mates" (of mates) and party donors. Whereas Labour U-turning on the relationship they seek between UK and EU would be more that it has now become apparent what the EU would accept and the impact of those constraints on the UK economy. Conservative millionaire MPs will not be significantly affected by the path Davis/Fox/May are pursuing as they are wealthy and their mates will see them in lucrative non-exec directorships. However the majority of the working population will an Labour seem to be thinking about those people.

So I see Labour's U-turn as a sensible response to an emerging situation/crisis.

Ian

[1gunsalute]

Not a U-turn by Labour. Their previous policy was cake and eat it but they've come to a T-junction and had to decide whether to go left or right. A U-turn would be going back the way we came (i.e. staying in EU).

Incidentally I see that Maybot has repeated her claim that we can't be in the single market without being a member of the EU. Despite the fact that Norway is in the single market and isn't a member of the EU. Why lie so blatantly?

[Psamathe]

....
Incidentally I see that Maybot has repeated her claim that we can't be in the single market without being a member of the EU. Despite the fact that Norway is in the single market and isn't a member of the EU. Why lie so blatantly?

I think she (and Davis/Fox/Blobby) don't really understand the EU - maybe why they are so determined that we leave whatever the damage to the UK.

Either that or she think everybody else is so stupid they they don't believe in Norway.

Ian

[mjr]

....
Incidentally I see that Maybot has repeated her claim that we can't be in the single market without being a member of the EU. Despite the fact that Norway is in the single market and isn't a member of the EU. Why lie so blatantly?

I think she (and Davis/Fox/Blobby) don't really understand the EU - maybe why they are so determined that we leave whatever the damage to the UK.

Either that or she think everybody else is so stupid they they don't believe in Norway.

As we see in this BBC documentary, it's a difficult time for typical Brexit supporters as they discover just how many lies they've been told about places not to believe in:
[youtube]mN3A0qbq6yM[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN3A0qbq6yM

[Psamathe]

....
Incidentally I see that Maybot has repeated her claim that we can't be in the single market without being a member of the EU. Despite the fact that Norway is in the single market and isn't a member of the EU. Why lie so blatantly?

I think she (and Davis/Fox/Blobby) don't really understand the EU - maybe why they are so determined that we leave whatever the damage to the UK.

Either that or she think everybody else is so stupid they they don't believe in Norway.

As we see in this BBC documentary, it's a difficult time for typical Brexit supporters as they discover just how many lies they've been told about places not to believe in:
.....

I find it very disappointing that the Conservative leadership (May and those ministers around her) hold us all in contempt that they think they can spin us any rubbish they like and that we are so stupid we will just believe it without question.

Ian

[Ruadh495]

Not sure the MayBot is actually wrong there. Not "It is not possible to be in the single market without being an EU member" (because Norway, and Switzerland...) but "It will not be possible for Britain to remain in the single market after leaving the EU" because the rest of the EU won't accept that. I don't know if that is actually the case, but May might. It does seem that remaining in the single market would involve retaining free movement of labour and some measure of ECJ jurisdiction (as per Norway) both of which the Conservatives seem determined to terminate.

[Vorpal]

Norway has access to the free market through the European Economic Association. It could be possible for the UK to obtain membership in that, but that is determined by the member states, and the UK cannot negotiate with the EU on that matter. I'm not sure that it is possible for the UK to request membership until it is no long an EU state. Even if the UK becomes a non-EU member of the EEA, there is likely to be some period of time where the UK does not have access to the single market.

[Psamathe]

Norway has access to the free market through the European Economic Association. It could be possible for the UK to obtain membership in that, but that is determined by the member states, and the UK cannot negotiate with the EU on that matter. I'm not sure that it is possible for the UK to request membership until it is no long an EU state. Even if the UK becomes a non-EU member of the EEA, there is likely to be some period of time where the UK does not have access to the single market.

But, I thought (maybe incorrectly) that EEA membership or rather any disputes are rules on by the ECJ ... which for some daft reason Chairman May has completely ruled out.

And, given the recent Home Office writing to 100 EU citizens "telling them to leave UK or face removal" (i.e. deportation time) is it any surprise that EU does not trust the UK to protect EU citizen rights? (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/23/home-office-apologises-for-letters-threatening-to-deport-eu-nationals)

Ian

[Vorpal]

Norway has access to the free market through the European Economic Association. It could be possible for the UK to obtain membership in that, but that is determined by the member states, and the UK cannot negotiate with the EU on that matter. I'm not sure that it is possible for the UK to request membership until it is no long an EU state. Even if the UK becomes a non-EU member of the EEA, there is likely to be some period of time where the UK does not have access to the single market.

But, I thought (maybe incorrectly) that EEA membership or rather any disputes are rules on by the ECJ ... which for some daft reason Chairman May has completely ruled out.

And, given the recent Home Office writing to 100 EU citizens "telling them to leave UK or face removal" (i.e. deportation time) is it any surprise that EU does not trust the UK to protect EU citizen rights? (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/23/home-office-apologises-for-letters-threatening-to-deport-eu-nationals)

Ian

Sorry, I wrote that incorrectly. Access to the single market is by one of two means:
EU membership
membership in EFTA

Only the EFTA member countries can decide if the UK should be in the EFTA and the UK cannot request it whilst in the EU; the UK gave up it's membership in the EFTA when it joined the EU. I don't think tha tthe ECJ has the authority to rule on EFTA disputes, unless the member countries give it that authority.