** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

[mjr]

Am I correct in saying that the ECHR is there for the people of Europe?
ie if you come from outside Europe, you have no access to it.

Correct?

The ECHR has jurisdiction by consent, covering signatories of the Treaty of London that created it. How else could it be?

There are also the African Court on Human Rights covering African Union members and Inter-American Court of Human Rights covering the Organisation of American States, but the remaining global coverage is the UN Commission on Human Rights not a court yet.

[Bonefishblues]

The European Court of Human Rights is nothing whatever to do with the EU.

Pardon? I think you'll find it's part of that wider Eurocontrolconspiracyregaincontrolblocking movement.

Repeat, the ECHR is nothing to do with the EU.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/whats-the-difference-between-the-european-convention-on-human-rights-the-european-court-of-human-rights-and-the-european-court-of-justice/

#havingalightheartedmomentamongsttheangst

[Psamathe]

Shall we also re-cover the European Courts (Justice and Human Rights) and their jurisdictions vs what is alleged? :D

The European Court of Human Rights is nothing whatever to do with the EU.

For the Bexit-eers in Westminster the big problem is the "Euro..." in the name. It seems their hatred of anything "European" extends to anything with "Euro" in the name (yes, most had a very expensive education at Eton but they still don't understand basic stuff).

e.g.

Qu: Why are we leaving Euratom which is legally distinct from the EU?
Ans: Because it has "Eur ..." in the title so something we can have nothing to do with.

Ian

[Bonefishblues]

Shall we also re-cover the European Courts (Justice and Human Rights) and their jurisdictions vs what is alleged?

The European Court of Human Rights is nothing whatever to do with the EU.

For the Bexit-eers in Westminster the big problem is the "Euro..." in the name. It seems their hatred of anything "European" extends to anything with "Euro" in the name (yes, most had a very expensive education at Eton but they still don't understand basic stuff).

e.g.

Qu: Why are we leaving Euratom which is legally distinct from the EU?
Ans: Because it has "Eur ..." in the title so something we can have nothing to do with.

Ian

I think you alone may understand the point I was making

[Psamathe]

The European Court of Human Rights is nothing whatever to do with the EU.

For the Bexit-eers in Westminster the big problem is the "Euro..." in the name. It seems their hatred of anything "European" extends to anything with "Euro" in the name (yes, most had a very expensive education at Eton but they still don't understand basic stuff).

e.g.

Qu: Why are we leaving Euratom which is legally distinct from the EU?
Ans: Because it has "Eur ..." in the title so something we can have nothing to do with.

Ian

I think you alone may understand the point I was making :D

The "Eurocontrolconspiracyregaincontrolblocking movement" was a bit of a clue.

Ian

[Oldjohnw]

Shall we also re-cover the European Courts (Justice and Human Rights) and their jurisdictions vs what is alleged?

The European Court of Human Rights is nothing whatever to do with the EU.

Except I *think* it is compulsory for EU member states to be a signatory, thereby ensuring the application of universal rights within the EU. Could be wrong.

Correct. You cannot join the EU and not be a membe of the ECHR.

[Psamathe]

Conflicting "reports" about Boris' making a fool of himself in Luxembourg (some suggesting EU leaders were not impressed with Luxembourg PM ... but if Boris wants to make a fool of himself why should others nursemaid him).

But also seems what Luxembourg expressed in public is what many EU leaders were thinking anyway but only saying "off-the-record"

And today Barnier has come out a bit stronger

EU's Michel Barnier tells Boris Johnson to stop 'pretending' to negotiate Brexit
...
It comes after reports that proposals brought to Brussels by UK negotiators amounted to the old agreement, with the section on the Irish backstop simply crossed out in the text.

Ian

[Oldjohnw]

For the Bexit-eers in Westminster the big problem is the "Euro..." in the name. It seems their hatred of anything "European" extends to anything with "Euro" in the name (yes, most had a very expensive education at Eton but they still don't understand basic stuff).

e.g.

Qu: Why are we leaving Euratom which is legally distinct from the EU?
Ans: Because it has "Eur ..." in the title so something we can have nothing to do with.

Ian

I think you alone may understand the point I was making

The "Eurocontrolconspiracyregaincontrolblocking movement" was a bit of a clue.

Ian

I did detect the irony but, unfortunately, this is one of the most perpetual myths around. Both May and Johnson have colluded.

[Psamathe]

I think you alone may understand the point I was making :D

The "Eurocontrolconspiracyregaincontrolblocking movement" was a bit of a clue.

Ian

I did detect the irony but, unfortunately, this is one of the most perpetual myths around. Both May and Johnson have colluded.

It's [lack of understanding] a common theme amongst those driving our departure from the EU e.g.


I would expect the new Prime Minister on September 9th to immediately trigger a large round of global trade deals with all our most favoured trade partners. I would expect that the negotiation phase of most of them to be concluded within between 12 and 24 months. 

So within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU. Trade deals with the US and China alone will give us a trade area almost twice the size of the EU, and of course we will also be seeking deals with Hong Kong, Canada, Australia, India, Japan, the UAE, Indonesia – and many others.

So even at that point he didn't understand EU rules on member states negotiating private trade deals.
and e.g.

A few days after that [i.e. after becoming Minister for Exiting the EU], he [David Davis] went on Sky News to claim the UK would soon have set up a free trade area “ten times larger” than the EU, which in GDP terms, would be significantly larger than Planet Earth itself.

Ian

[mercalia]

I wonder if privately any of the leaders of EU countries have asked themselves whether they and their population would accept a backstop as being demanded by the EU as a preamble to any trade talks?

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Live at the moment –
UK is withdrawal from the EU.
At the EU's HQ.
MEPs from all over Europe are discussing.
You can applaud whoever you like which ever side you're sitting on.
it would appear there are plenty of EU sceptics from other EU countries.
But one thing is clear they are all (Eurosceptics and pro-EU MEP's) blaming the British government for not getting the job done.
John Claude Juncker is also singled out.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who,s wondering which way we're going to swing on the 31st.

My personal view is as before, plus the fact that when we leave I will no longer have to listen to the word EU.

Before the bricks start flying, I just like to remind everybody that It's each individuals Prerogative to vote the way they They want, and not the way other people would like them or want them to.

[roubaixtuesday]

...the fact that when we leave I will no longer have to listen to the word EU...

"...in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes..."

...and that the EU will continue to be central to our politics whatever happens next.

Ironically, "no-deal" will result in you hearing more about the EU, for a longer period of time, than any other outcome on 31st.

The quickest way to end it all is to remain, of course.

[Psamathe]

Hi,
Live at the moment –
UK is withdrawal from the EU.
At the EU's HQ.
MEPs from all over Europe are discussing.
You can applaud whoever you like which ever side you're sitting on.
it would appear there are plenty of EU sceptics from other EU countries.
But one thing is clear they are all (Eurosceptics and pro-EU MEP's) blaming the British government for not getting the job done.
John Claude Juncker is also singled out.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who,s wondering which way we're going to swing on the 31st.

My personal view is as before, plus the fact that when we leave I will no longer have to listen to the word EU.

Before the bricks start flying, I just like to remind everybody that It's each individuals Prerogative to vote the way they They want, and not the way other people would like them or want them to.

If we leave with "No-Deal" that will be far from the end of everything as we will immediately have to go back to them to ask nicely for a trade deal. And EU have already said the first thing in those meetings will be to sort of the commitments we've defaulted on (the ££££), to sort our keeping the Irish border open, etc.. So No-Deal just perpetuates the current situation except with massive damage to the UK economy.

Ian

[mjr]

My personal view is as before, plus the fact that when we leave I will no longer have to listen to the word EU.

Before the bricks start flying, I just like to remind everybody that It's each individuals Prerogative to vote the way they They want, and not the way other people would like them or want them to.

We know that. I think most of us wish your reason wasn't ridiculous and likely to be disappointed. If the UK defaults, there will be decades of hearing "EU".

[661-Pete]

Before the bricks start flying, I just like to remind everybody that It's each individuals Prerogative to vote the way they They want, and not the way other people would like them or want them to.

If I was a turkey, I would not want the other turkeys in my flock to vote for Christmas. I'd do my utmost to dissuade them (assuming turkeys could talk....). Simples.

Brick duly thrown. We'll see what happens....