** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 2 Feb 2019, 1:37pm

bigjim wrote:End of!


As an aside why do some people use that stupid expression and what exactly does it mean?

kwackers
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby kwackers » 2 Feb 2019, 1:46pm

pete75 wrote:As an aside why do some people use that stupid expression and what exactly does it mean?

I think you answered your own question there.

But IME it's normally intended to terminate a conversation when the person that utters (usually shouts) it isn't interested in the stuff that's making their choice complicated or even impossible.

There's an implicit: "I don't give a <FFE>" associated with it.
Last edited by Graham on 3 Feb 2019, 2:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: FFE . . .family-friendly edit

Canuk
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Canuk » 2 Feb 2019, 1:47pm

pete75 wrote:
bigjim wrote:End of!


As an aside why do some people use that stupid expression and what exactly does it mean?


It means: 'I have no credible way to justify or reference any part or portion of my argument.'

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 2 Feb 2019, 1:49pm

mercalia wrote:
yes exactly what they have done

I relish the thought of the EU having to break the GFA and impose a hard border that Eire have to police - its what Eire deserves - they should have known better. The EU dont want a sensible approach only one that satisfies their rules and <expletive deleted> the British, why the backstop is all wrong.


Like many you're completely missing the point. Whatever bad things come out of Brexit will be entirely the fault of the UK or rather those in the UK who voted for it.
People in depressed areas and doing badly economically were utterly stupid to blame their plight on the EU. If, as seems almost certain, Brexit makes things worse for them it'll be exactly what they chose by their vote. They will deserve no sympathy nor financial support from te more prosperous areas of the country which voted remain. They've urinated on their bed and they can lie on it.

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 2 Feb 2019, 1:50pm

Canuk wrote:It means: 'I have no credible way to justify or reference any part or portion of my argument.'


Given what was written before the "End of!" you're not wrong.

Canuk
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Canuk » 2 Feb 2019, 2:01pm

Everyone it seems is still relatively sanguine and rosy coloured about the exit from the EU on thy 29th. I'm not. IMO a deal at this 11th hour is so far beyond wishful thinking, it can be 100% discounted. Here's my (perhaps fanciful, perhaps not) take on it:

Crash out, with nothing, not even WTO in place for a year. Chaos looms, but takes 72 hrs before people see the shelves emptying and unrest appearing on the streets. It all starts to turn sinister, very quickly. Blanket Internet blackout ensues. State takes over all broadcast and print media. Easy peasy, half a day and its done.

The lunatics take over the asylum, the extreme right take a strong grip on uk politics, declare martial law and cancel any forthcoming elections, for the 'good of the country'. Its a set up Marie Le Pen wakes up sweating from her best dreams.

Scotland declares immediate independence from the carnage and erects its own hard border with the south and NI. No one gets in or out.

Hard border goes up almost immediately in NI, violence commences with gusto in Ireland and mainland UK, giving the incumbent government the opportunity to extend the Martial law, ad infinitum.

Basic medical supplies, and their stockpiles dwindling to the point where extreme rationing is applied. Incuring yet more rioting and violence on the streets. Million plus demonstrations in major UK cities.

Europe pulls up the drawbridge, content to watch the ultra right burn what's left of the UK down to the ground.

One year later... Ultra low tax, elite governed , Luxembourg lite Britain (or what's left of it) emerges on its knees controlled by a far right, technology enabled autocracy, with martial law looming to replace the police state, looks forward to 'a brighter future in the world'. Even Donald Trump declares it a regime too extreme to do business with. A steady decline is already pencilled in. Fascism and forced deportation returns to the UK. Just like the good old days of Moseley. 54 days to go. 'Great' Britain no more. End of.

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 2 Feb 2019, 2:47pm

Irish border:

When was it put in place?
1969(?) for security reasons during The Troubles.
It was removed by the GFA.

Why does it need to be put back?
The Irish don't want it, the UK doesn't want it.

Therefore, who actually wants it?
Mick F. Cornwall

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Paulatic
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Paulatic » 2 Feb 2019, 3:06pm

Mick F wrote:Irish border:

When was it put in place?
1969(?) for security reasons during The Troubles.
It was removed by the GFA.

Why does it need to be put back?
The Irish don't want it, the UK doesn't want it.

Therefore, who actually wants it?


the border was created in 1921 under the United Kingdom Parliament's Government of Ireland Act 1920 So I guess the U.K. government wanted it.
GFA removed border controls the Irish Border is still there.
The Irish don’t want a hard border again but are we certain the DUP don’t want one?
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pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 2 Feb 2019, 3:08pm

Mick F wrote:Irish border:

When was it put in place?
1969(?) for security reasons during The Troubles.
It was removed by the GFA.

Why does it need to be put back?
The Irish don't want it, the UK doesn't want it.

Therefore, who actually wants it?


It's been there since Britain partitioned Ireland and the Irish Free State was established in the early twenties. It's not really an Irish border though more like a British border in Ireland.

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 2 Feb 2019, 3:46pm

Ok, I may have worded it incorrectly.

Irish Border Controls.
They were first put there during The Troubles.
They were removed by the GFA.

1921 and all that, didn't have Border Controls. I think I'm right in saying there was free movement of people until 1969(?) and reinstated by the GFA.
Mick F. Cornwall

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 2 Feb 2019, 4:28pm

Mick F wrote:Irish border:

When was it put in place?
1969(?) for security reasons during The Troubles.
It was removed by the GFA.

Why does it need to be put back?
The Irish don't want it, the UK doesn't want it.

Therefore, who actually wants it?


Border controls will almost always be demanded by any trade partner. Otherwise all those preferential tariffs are pointless. As far as I know, it'll be a requirement of the famous WTO.

But it is easier to blame EU intransigence than to blame reality.

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 2 Feb 2019, 4:34pm

bovlomov wrote:Border controls will almost always be demanded by any trade partner.
That's the point.
They weren't required on the island of Ireland before The Troubles and even well before the EU came on the scene, so why now?
Mick F. Cornwall

pete75
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 2 Feb 2019, 4:37pm

Mick F wrote:
bovlomov wrote:Border controls will almost always be demanded by any trade partner.
That's the point.
They weren't required on the island of Ireland before The Troubles and even well before the EU came on the scene, so why now?


Customs controls were first established when the Irish Free State came into existence - around 1923.

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 2 Feb 2019, 4:38pm

Mick F wrote:
bovlomov wrote:Border controls will almost always be demanded by any trade partner.
That's the point.
They weren't required on the island of Ireland before The Troubles and even well before the EU came on the scene, so why now?

I don't know. I suppose global trade has moved on somewhat since then. More stuff is moving about, and differential tariffs are more of an issue.

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Cunobelin
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cunobelin » 2 Feb 2019, 6:55pm

Mick F wrote:
bovlomov wrote:Border controls will almost always be demanded by any trade partner.
That's the point.
They weren't required on the island of Ireland before The Troubles and even well before the EU came on the scene, so why now?


No idea.


Perhaps because of the two point that you raised?


Both Eire and the UK joined the EU, so there was no need for a border

Then the UK decided to unilaterally exit and demanded control of those very borders

So why now?

Because the UK decided to demand control of its borders?