** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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Cunobelin
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cunobelin » 12 Feb 2019, 6:51am

The biggest irony is that in a few months when the UK is deep in the mire, the whole fiasco will act as a deterrent for other countries toying with leaving the EU

Brexit may actually be strengthening the remaining EU

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Mick F
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Mick F » 12 Feb 2019, 8:18am

Cunobelin wrote:The biggest irony is that in a few months when the UK is deep in the mire, the whole fiasco will act as a deterrent for other countries toying with leaving the EU

Brexit may actually be strengthening the remaining EU
Isn't that their whole idea behind their negotiation technique?
If(?) and when we leave, they will punish us as an example to others, so they have to make it difficult.

I think this point has been already discussed on this thread a few hundreds of pages back.
Mick F. Cornwall

francovendee
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby francovendee » 12 Feb 2019, 8:36am

Mick F wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:The biggest irony is that in a few months when the UK is deep in the mire, the whole fiasco will act as a deterrent for other countries toying with leaving the EU

Brexit may actually be strengthening the remaining EU
Isn't that their whole idea behind their negotiation technique?
If(?) and when we leave, they will punish us as an example to others, so they have to make it difficult.

I think this point has been already discussed on this thread a few hundreds of pages back.


Not sure about punishing the UK, saying no to the UK cherry picking, yes, This is what will make our leaving hard, not the EU being nasty.

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 12 Feb 2019, 9:10am

francovendee wrote:
Mick F wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:The biggest irony is that in a few months when the UK is deep in the mire, the whole fiasco will act as a deterrent for other countries toying with leaving the EU

Brexit may actually be strengthening the remaining EU
Isn't that their whole idea behind their negotiation technique?
If(?) and when we leave, they will punish us as an example to others, so they have to make it difficult.

I think this point has been already discussed on this thread a few hundreds of pages back.


Not sure about punishing the UK, saying no to the UK cherry picking, yes, This is what will make our leaving hard, not the EU being nasty.

From the outset, experts were telling us what the EU position would be and how they would not deviate from it. Brexit supporters, on the other hand, dismissed all that as 'project fear', and assured us that the EU would come begging us for deals. The experts' opinions still hold, while the Brexiters' view has shifted to one where the EU is seen as punishing or bullying us.

So which do we believe? Do we trust the expert view that has been borne out by events, or do we trust the Brexiter view that is opportunistic and shifts each time the wind blows. The Brexiter arguments are rather like Rory Bremner's description of Blair's justification for the Iraq war: like a man falling through a tree. He grabs on to a branch, which breaks. He then falls a bit further, grasping for the next branch, which also breaks. And so on.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 12 Feb 2019, 9:57am

Mick F wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:The biggest irony is that in a few months when the UK is deep in the mire, the whole fiasco will act as a deterrent for other countries toying with leaving the EU

Brexit may actually be strengthening the remaining EU
Isn't that their whole idea behind their negotiation technique?
If(?) and when we leave, they will punish us as an example to others, so they have to make it difficult.

I think this point has been already discussed on this thread a few hundreds of pages back.


If they want to punish us, they're doing a damn poor job of it, considering they control our food supply...

The EU are a highly pragmatic organisation, they have to be as they are based on getting consensus across 27 countries. Even if some people wanted to "punish" us, they wouldn't be able to implement such a policy.

Look at the deal. It's better than anything offered to any equivalent country.

Perceived "punishment" is just the familiar desire to blame foreigners for our self-imposed problems.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 12 Feb 2019, 9:58am

Oh, and try reading the article I posted above on EU attitudes to the UK. You won't find any "punishment", rather sadness and bemusement.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pete75 » 12 Feb 2019, 10:30am

Mick F wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:The biggest irony is that in a few months when the UK is deep in the mire, the whole fiasco will act as a deterrent for other countries toying with leaving the EU

Brexit may actually be strengthening the remaining EU
Isn't that their whole idea behind their negotiation technique?
If(?) and when we leave, they will punish us as an example to others, so they have to make it difficult.

I think this point has been already discussed on this thread a few hundreds of pages back.


What Brexiters need to realise is that any and all bad things that may befall Britain are entirely down to the decision of some of the British people to leave the EU. Those things will be the fault of every single one of the 17 million odd who voted leave and no one else.

mr bajokoses
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mr bajokoses » 12 Feb 2019, 10:35am

roubaixtuesday wrote:How we are seen by the rest of the EU.

Should be a sobering read for supporters of Brexit. A taster from Czech Republic:

To see an established democracy like Britain descending into this chaos and irrationality is really disheartening. It’s a very comprehensive defeat for British politics
.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ews-brexit


It's a tragedy, and a total embarrassment. We are throwing so much away. And for literally nothing. We're still waiting to hear what the benefits of brexit are, particularly anything that makes it worth this incredible cost. Our continental neighbours really are our friends (friendly rivals yes, but friends nonetheless), no matter how much WW2 posturing our ridiculous politicians and newspapers blurt out. People keep voting for them, and buying the trashy newspapers, so as I said earlier we probably do have the politics and media we deserve.

I think the weight of responsibility for this ongoing shambles will be too much for any of the brexiters to bear. Already they are blaming the EU for applying 'brexit means brexit'. I for one look forward to the inevitable public inquiry.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 12 Feb 2019, 10:45am

Mick F wrote:Isn't that their whole idea behind their negotiation technique?
If(?) and when we leave, they will punish us as an example to others, so they have to make it difficult.

I really think you should either cite or provide some source for this "accusation".
It is a favourite strategy of "vote leave" easy to say but as far as I can see without any foundation whatsoever.
The EU wants to protect it's interests for they are the interests of its citizens.
Seems so obvious that even having to restate it seems banal.

I don't think Rees Mogg has my interest or the interests of the wider UK at heart.
He is on record as saying "the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs will be worth it".

Some folk thought his view worth voting for.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Vorpal » 12 Feb 2019, 11:00am

Most of my Norwegian colleagues seem to think that the British have en masse taken leave of their senses.

If my colleagues have another opinion, they are (politely) keeping it themselves, though some hint at it when they say that they say things like 'Do they really think they will get access to the single market without the freedom of movement?'
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 12 Feb 2019, 11:08am

Vorpal wrote:Most of my Norwegian colleagues seem to think that the British have en masse taken leave of their senses.

I hope you are telling them that we haven't all taken leave of our senses. Some of us understand perfectly well what is happening.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Vorpal » 12 Feb 2019, 11:14am

bovlomov wrote:
Vorpal wrote:Most of my Norwegian colleagues seem to think that the British have en masse taken leave of their senses.

I hope you are telling them that we haven't all taken leave of our senses. Some of us understand perfectly well what is happening.

:lol: :lol: They have learned not to bring up Brexit in my presence. :twisted:
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Audax67 » 12 Feb 2019, 11:30am

Have we got time for another cuppa?

roubaixtuesday
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby roubaixtuesday » 12 Feb 2019, 11:35am

Vorpal wrote:Most of my Norwegian colleagues seem to think that the British have en masse taken leave of their senses.


My Swedish colleagues likewise. Some of them are also pretty annoyed they're having to spend their time planning for the impact.

My US colleagues also likewise. They however generally think it's funny - they're glad to have someone else's government more ridiculous than theirs.

Nobody, but *nobody*, I've spoken to from anywhere in the world thinks we're doing the right thing.

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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby bovlomov » 12 Feb 2019, 11:47am

roubaixtuesday wrote:Nobody, but *nobody*, I've spoken to from anywhere in the world thinks we're doing the right thing.

And this is in danger of becoming a badge of honour for Brexit supporters - the Millwall credo: No one likes us, we don't care. It's also how attention-seeking children react when they realise that smashing windows is the surest way to get their parents to notice them.

Perhaps Brexit can best be sorted out by child psychologists.