** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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Psamathe
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby Psamathe » 13 Jan 2017, 1:07pm

landsurfer wrote:Just a thought folks.... how many 16 - 18 year olds do you actually interact with. Interact with .. not "know".
I employ 6 of them .... Mummy or daddy brings them to work and picks them up, makes their packed lunch and dresses them, they are incredibly immature.
One first year apprentice left because mummy got a job further from home and he would had to have caught the bus to work .....
They think work is a social occasion and it's all right to be constantly playing with their phones ... constantly .....
And you would let them VOTE !!!!!
....

Maybe more worrying is that these are the people who we are told are going to take the fruit/veg/agricultural jobs on minimum wage working long days, hard physical work during the harvesting season. We (or our agricultural sector) depend on these workers yet we don't seem to want to accept them (because maybe they use our NHS ? or don't speak English as well as we expect them to ?, or who knows why).

Ian

reohn2
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby reohn2 » 13 Jan 2017, 1:15pm

Boyd wrote:Why **** should foreigners get to vote? How do you know they pay there taxes? The majority of the ones I know never earn enough to pay taxes or only just go over the tax allowance before going home. Some no doubt go to other countries and use there tax allowance there.
PS I have done it

Got any facts and figure to back up your claim?

Boyd wrote:Why has there been a 20% increase in people using A and E This year? Nothing to do with EU immigrants? Who often don't speak english so the NHS has to supply an interpreter. I note no TV stations are suggesting that as possibility. Not politically correct?


Got any facts and figures to back up those claims?

Or is it just post-truth?
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blackbike
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby blackbike » 13 Jan 2017, 1:46pm

landsurfer wrote:Just a thought folks.... how many 16 - 18 year olds do you actually interact with. Interact with .. not "know".
I employ 6 of them .... Mummy or daddy brings them to work and picks them up, makes their packed lunch and dresses them, they are incredibly immature.
One first year apprentice left because mummy got a job further from home and he would had to have caught the bus to work .....
They think work is a social occasion and it's all right to be constantly playing with their phones ... constantly .....
And you would let them VOTE !!!!!

Probably when you and I where 18 we where adults .... that has changed .. for the worse.


Agreed.

The way parents. schools and universities mollycoddle youngsters these days has caused them to be hopelessly naïve and immature in many ways.

We should put the voting age back up to 21 to reflect this.

reohn2
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby reohn2 » 13 Jan 2017, 2:11pm

blackbike wrote:
landsurfer wrote:Just a thought folks.... how many 16 - 18 year olds do you actually interact with. Interact with .. not "know".
I employ 6 of them .... Mummy or daddy brings them to work and picks them up, makes their packed lunch and dresses them, they are incredibly immature.
One first year apprentice left because mummy got a job further from home and he would had to have caught the bus to work .....
They think work is a social occasion and it's all right to be constantly playing with their phones ... constantly .....
And you would let them VOTE !!!!!

Probably when you and I where 18 we where adults .... that has changed .. for the worse.


Agreed.

The way parents. schools and universities mollycoddle youngsters these days has caused them to be hopelessly naïve and immature in many ways.

We should put the voting age back up to 21 to reflect this.


Yet we let them wander around in war zones with automatic weapons :shock:
We should put the killing age up to 21...........
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bovlomov
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby bovlomov » 13 Jan 2017, 2:11pm

I know why A&E is overstretched in our area.

- GPs rarely or never make home visits. Appointments with some GPs have to be booked far in advance. There is an out-of-hours service, but their advice is either do nothing and see what happens, or go to A&E.

- The District Nurse service has disintegrated. The older nurses have retired, to be replaced with agency nurses. There is no continuity of treatment from them, and it is virtually impossible to contact the office by phone. The management is centralised now, and so remote from the patient in more than one way. Communication between District Nurses and GPs is minimal. A&E is picking up the pieces.

- Social care services are in decline. People with easily solved health or mobility issues aren't noticed until there is a crisis - often resulting in a visit to A&E.

In every respect this is worse than five years ago.

I'd start with all that before looking to blame immigrants.

Psamathe
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby Psamathe » 13 Jan 2017, 2:30pm

bovlomov wrote:....
I'd start with all that before looking to blame immigrants.

But blaming the EU immigrants is ... so easy. You don't need facts or evidence. It plays well to the crowd. It avoids our politicians having to take any responsibility. etc., etc.

Just a shame that avoiding the issue by blaming anything (with no evidence) will not help rectify the situation.

Ian

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mjr
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby mjr » 13 Jan 2017, 2:37pm

blackbike wrote:It is amusing that it was the Remain side who wanted these kids to have a vote in our referendum when they now tell us that the result was not valid because too many stupid, ill-informed and uneducated people voted Leave.

The Remain campaign is not doing that. Project Delusion is lying to you. Don't be a Wrexiter.

Boyd wrote:My experience of AandE has been of a large proportion of young foreigners particularly Romanians in AandE.

I only noticed one foreign-seeming person when I was last in A&E, who removed what was stabbing me in the throat. The waiting room seemed to be mostly British and mostly sozzled.

Boyd wrote:How much does an interpreter cost

Don't they use that "Language Line" phone interpreter service as much as possible, like the police and other public services?
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bovlomov
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby bovlomov » 13 Jan 2017, 2:46pm

Psamathe wrote:
bovlomov wrote:....
I'd start with all that before looking to blame immigrants.

But blaming the EU immigrants is ... so easy. You don't need facts or evidence. It plays well to the crowd. It avoids our politicians having to take any responsibility. etc., etc.

Just a shame that avoiding the issue by blaming anything (with no evidence) will not help rectify the situation.

Yes. I think immigration might put some extra pressure on the NHS* **, but all the problems above are about funding and management - and, particularly, about where the money is going.

* If immigrants are working and paying taxes - and are thus an economic benefit - then they should be taking pressure off the NHS by their presence.

** Anyone waiting at the GP surgery or hospital - at least in London - will see a succession of foreign names coming up on the dot matrix board. That might give a misleading impression about the amount of immigrants here, because so many will be second or third generation (retaining the dodgy foreign name and the dodgy foreign looks, but being British).

reohn2
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby reohn2 » 13 Jan 2017, 2:47pm

Psamathe wrote:
bovlomov wrote:....
I'd start with all that before looking to blame immigrants.

But blaming the EU immigrants is ... so easy. You don't need facts or evidence. It plays well to the crowd. It avoids our politicians having to take any responsibility. etc., etc.

Just a shame that avoiding the issue by blaming anything (with no evidence) will not help rectify the situation.

Ian

And we have a government in power who's leaders have spoken fine words for the past six years whilst presiding over the demoralisation of NHS staff which lurch from one crisis to another,as funding decreases in real terms and at the same time taxes for the higher earning brackets reduce.....
But then they're Tories who's remit is privatisation however much it costs in real terms.......
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blackbike
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby blackbike » 13 Jan 2017, 3:12pm

Psamathe wrote:
bovlomov wrote:....
I'd start with all that before looking to blame immigrants.

But blaming the EU immigrants is ... so easy. You don't need facts or evidence. It plays well to the crowd. It avoids our politicians having to take any responsibility. etc., etc.

Just a shame that avoiding the issue by blaming anything (with no evidence) will not help rectify the situation.

Ian


The world is full of countries which don't allow fee movement of labour into their economies. The EU has that policy too.

Are all these countries, and the EU too, irrationally denying themselves the benefit of completely unregulated immigration?

That's what many Remain types would have us believe.

Low wage, low skilled immigrants are likely to be a drain on any economy, which is why most countries don't want them and don't allow them in.

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al_yrpal
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby al_yrpal » 13 Jan 2017, 3:12pm

In the short term… Britain's jobs market to stay strong in 2017, says Bank of England official

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... NRtNQbv3G0

Al
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Psamathe
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby Psamathe » 13 Jan 2017, 3:15pm

al_yrpal wrote:In the short term… Britain's jobs market to stay strong in 2017, says Bank of England official

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... NRtNQbv3G0

Al

You mean while we remain part of the EU ? (through 2017)

Ian

kwackers
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby kwackers » 13 Jan 2017, 3:29pm

Psamathe wrote:You mean while we remain part of the EU ? (through 2017)

Until something actually happens and all the little hands currently in the air saying "don't forget about us" get to know their fates then how can anyone or any company know whether they'll be one of the favoured group in the new order?

Big tax breaks for doggers: That's my election promise.
It's no more absurd or less likely to happen than anything else we've been promised...
(Has May actually done *anything* yet?)

Psamathe
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby Psamathe » 13 Jan 2017, 3:32pm

kwackers wrote:
Psamathe wrote:You mean while we remain part of the EU ? (through 2017)

Until something actually happens and all the little hands currently in the air saying "don't forget about us" get to know their fates then how can anyone or any company know whether they'll be one of the favoured group in the new order?
....

I agree except there is at least one "favoured company" status - Nissan, who seem to have received private and secret assurances of some deal. And it would seem surprising if, given that everybody knows how Nissan have received something, other companies had not also sought "special favoured company" deals.

It strikes me as a bit unfair that a company should receive a secret private deal for political purposes but I guess that's how our system seems to work these days. And I can understand other companies feeling somewhat "put-out" (and questioning their future here) if they don't gets a special deal as well.

Ian

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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby Cyril Haearn » 13 Jan 2017, 3:41pm

landsurfer wrote:Just a thought folks.... how many 16 - 18 year olds do you actually interact with. Interact with .. not "know".
I employ 6 of them .... Mummy or daddy brings them to work and picks them up, makes their packed lunch and dresses them, they are incredibly immature.
One first year apprentice left because mummy got a job further from home and he would had to have caught the bus to work .....
They think work is a social occasion and it's all right to be constantly playing with their phones ... constantly .....
And you would let them VOTE !!!!!

Probably when you and I where 18 we where adults .... that has changed .. for the worse.



Hello landsurfer

You obviously choose to employ them, how much do they get per hour? Maybe you could employ older people who might cost more but get more done. Many firms forbid using personal phones etc at work, could you do that? One thing is better now than back then, remember how often people used the employer's telephone for private calls.

I was surely immature at 16, 18, 21.. did a lot of cycling instead of developing my personality. Decades later I understand why you many "primitive" societies have special respect for older people. Because wisdom and learning develop over many years and cannot be acquired in three years at college.
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