** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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Psamathe
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby Psamathe » 15 Jan 2017, 4:09pm

reohn2 wrote:
mercalia wrote:its not only wages but housing? 2M+ from the EU means a lot of housing taken by them. I see them every where in London. If successive govts wont solve the only real problem that concerns many in the UK then so be it


Hang on!
If there are foreigners working in the country,there must be work for them here.
By that reckoning immigrants are needed to fulfill the jobs UK workers can't,whatever the reason.
The fact that there aren't enough houses isn't the foreigners fault it's ours for not building them.
X number of jobs,need X number of people,therefore need X number of houses.
That's a simple equation,don't blame the foreigners for it.

I see housing problems as the failure of our UK politicians. We've (they've) been aware of the needs for many years yet they have repeatedly failed to do anything significant. We know what is needed, we have the technology, we have the materials, ok, we are short of people to do the work (maybe some other EU countries might have appropriate skilled people ?), we have the money (if we can spend all the billions on HS2 to benefit a very limited few, far better to spend on housing benefiting many and those in need), it would even generate nice profits for Conservative Party donors.

So I see it as a Westminster politician problem/failing not an immigration problem.

I also see the drive for ever greater home ownership as a hindrance. What I think is needed as a highest priority is for decent standard housing in sensible places for everybody. I can't see that e.g. selling off Council houses has helped atall (I suspect it has made things worse).

Ian

kwackers
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby kwackers » 15 Jan 2017, 4:36pm

Don't forget all the emigrants. There are a lot of UK folk abroad who don't have houses here...
(And a lot of British in this country with a couple. ;) )

Psamathe
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby Psamathe » 15 Jan 2017, 4:51pm

kwackers wrote:Don't forget all the emigrants. There are a lot of UK folk abroad who don't have houses here...

Latest data shows 125,000 British people emigrated in year ending June 2016 (plus nearly 100,000 EU (non-UK) citizens emigrated).

I suspect the number of British emigrating from the UK will drop significantly as they would be unsure that they will be allowed to stay in their chosen EU country (whereas the demographic of EU immigrants is such that they are more mobile, tend not to buy houses and become "fixed" so are happy to come to the UK for a few years, earn some money and return home).

Ian

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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby Vorpal » 15 Jan 2017, 5:42pm

The housing problem would be worse if all the British abroad were suddenly forced to return.

Not only are the numbers at least as many as foreign workers living in the UK, but in many cases, the housing needs are different, and available accomodation may not be suitable.
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reohn2
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby reohn2 » 15 Jan 2017, 6:11pm

Vorpal wrote:The housing problem would be worse if all the British abroad were suddenly forced to return.

Not to mention how much worse the NHS will be if all those old retired people living abroad are forced to return.

Not only are the numbers at least as many as foreign workers living in the UK, but in many cases, the housing needs are different, and available accomodation may not be suitable.

Imagine the same retired returnees having to live in three story apartments as they can't afford the same housing they enjoyed in Spain,etc.....

Hmm the old,they outlive their usefulness and then clog up the hospitals without having the dignity to die off :?
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Psamathe
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby Psamathe » 15 Jan 2017, 6:16pm

Vorpal wrote:The housing problem would be worse if all the British abroad were suddenly forced to return.

Not only are the numbers at least as many as foreign workers living in the UK, but in many cases, the housing needs are different, and available accomodation may not be suitable.

Maybe worse as whilst the exit process is in limbo I can't see similar numbers of British emigrating (mainly buying houses) to the EU whereas I can see EU (younger more mobile) citizens still being happy to move to the UK. So net migration numbers may easily see an increase in immigration as the imbalance gets worse.

e.g. were I considering e.g. moving to France (buying property) now then I probably wouldn't as I'd have no idea as to my being sent home to the UK in 2 years (or whenever). But when I was younger I happily moved to the Netherlands for a year prior to moving to the US.

And then there is the age profiles of those people where returning Brits would generally be older and make significantly more demands on e.g. the already stretched NHS whilst the EU immigrants to the UK tend to be younger and make lower demands on e.g. the NHS.

Ian

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bovlomov
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby bovlomov » 15 Jan 2017, 6:29pm

Boyd wrote:My experience of Eastern Europeans in the UK is "you English are all lazy and on benefits" we found out they were paying them more than us for the exact same job and they all got the sack for bone idleness. So no sympathy from me for the rare xenophobic remarks of some U.K. citizens.

I wasn't commenting on your attitude to xenophobia. I was correcting a misleading post, that was quoting another misleading post and a misleading headline.

Before saying you have no sympathy, presumably you need to know what exactly it is you have no sympathy for.

mercalia
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby mercalia » 15 Jan 2017, 8:42pm

Vorpal wrote:The housing problem would be worse if all the British abroad were suddenly forced to return.

Not only are the numbers at least as many as foreign workers living in the UK, but in many cases, the housing needs are different, and available accomodation may not be suitable.



maybe but many I see in London have families with kids often more than one

landsurfer
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby landsurfer » 15 Jan 2017, 8:54pm

Must be missing something here ......
Nobody with the right to be here under present conditions will be forced to leave ....
No Brits abroad will be forcibly repatriated.
Whole areas of France and Spain would be laid waste, local economies destroyed ......
And many other european countries as well .....
Reciprocal rights will be established .......
Dont confuse political posturing with reality..... :roll:

The discussion exists because some would want to use fear as a weapon in achieving their political goals .....
The Road Goes On Forever

Psamathe
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby Psamathe » 15 Jan 2017, 9:10pm

landsurfer wrote:Must be missing something here ......
Nobody with the right to be here under present conditions will be forced to leave ....
No Brits abroad will be forcibly repatriated.
Whole areas of France and Spain would be laid waste, local economies destroyed ......
And many other european countries as well .....
Reciprocal rights will be established .......
Dont confuse political posturing with reality..... :roll:

The discussion exists because some would want to use fear as a weapon in achieving their political goals .....

The trouble is that, if what you say is correct, the political posturing and uncertainty (as the politicians keep reminding us) is already causing immigrants from EU in the health sector to return home and problems persuading others to come over. Birmingham NHS have already reported problems from this effect (together with the increased race hate crimes).

And would I but a house in France at the moment on the basis that "it will probably be OK" (despite what the politicians keep saying).

And I'm sure it wont be alright for everybody in that there must be some "cut-off date" e.g. arrive in UK 10 mins before our EU departure comes into effect and you probably wont be given right to stay forever; arrive day before unlikely to be given that right, week before unlikely, 6 months before who knows, etc.

Ian

landsurfer
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby landsurfer » 15 Jan 2017, 9:15pm

There is defiantly a group in Brit society who wish to ferment fear and unsettle all those who have travelled here to work and all those from here that have decided to live and work abroad ..
What their end game is i do not know ...... any ideas ....
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blackbike
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby blackbike » 15 Jan 2017, 9:32pm

landsurfer wrote:There is defiantly a group in Brit society who wish to ferment fear ...


You reckon there is trouble brewing, do you?

landsurfer
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby landsurfer » 15 Jan 2017, 9:34pm

We're all awash with irony tonight aren't we ..... :D
The Road Goes On Forever

blackbike
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Re: 'Brexit means Brexit' ... ** The Brexit Thread **

Postby blackbike » 15 Jan 2017, 9:36pm

landsurfer wrote:We're all awash with irony tonight aren't we ..... :D


Defiantly.

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661-Pete
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Re: 'Brexit means ******all. Get real.

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Jan 2017, 9:44pm

More lunacy. Now it seems that this nonsense will hit pension ages.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ons-warned
I'm already past that threshold - as is Mrs P - so I don't expect this to hit us retrospectively - but still, plenty of people I know could be stymied.

Enough is enough. Time to kill this whole stupid farce once and for all. 48% voted to stay in the EU. Time to just respect the wishes of those 48%, and over-ride the warped, deluded and manic xenophobic attitudes that caused the 52% to vote out. I don't care how much of a furious backlash this generates on this forum. This forum is nothing as far as politics are concerned. I don't care if naysayers argue, the Government woudl be reneging on its promises. Every Government in history has reneged on its promises time and time again. It's not the end of the world. This time, to do so purposely would make a whole lot of sense.

To quote Canio's (or is it Tonio's) famous last line (in good Italian of course):
La commedia è finita!
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).