** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Mar 2019, 3:26pm

pwa wrote:You are drifting off onto different territory there. My point was solely about JRM, BoJo, etc not being influential in my wish to leave the EU, indeed, I found it uncomfortable voting the way they would want me to much as R2 would have felt a tinge of discomfort voting with George O and Cameron. And going back further in the thread, I feel that calling JRM Far Right (by which I imagine EDL) is just a mis-labelling. It may satisfy the desire to name calling but it is mis-labelling all the same. Tory Right is the term I would opt for. You can still dislike it with that term, but not confuse it with something of a different character.

A TINGE?
I would've felt far more than a tinge of discomfort voting for such scum,it would've been no less than a betrayal of who I am to vote for those public schoolboy creeps who have never ever had nothing but their own interests at heart and similarly so May,JRM,BoJo et al snakes to a wo/man.
Where are Cameron and Osborne now,scurried out the back door like rats off a sinking ship without the guts to try and manage what they caused,and the far right of their sick party manoeuvring an idiot into PM position,a woman who's previous position as Home Sec was a failure of huge proportion,left to lead the country to be mired in this utter stinking mess.

This fiasco is the worst possible thing that could ever happen to the country in living memory and the sinking of the country into oblivion hasn't even started yet!

EDITED for typos
Last edited by reohn2 on 16 Mar 2019, 6:03pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Cunobelin
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Mar 2019, 3:41pm

pwa wrote:
Cugel wrote:
pwa wrote:Do we have to play this game? If Mogg supported something I already wanted, I don't care. I didn't get anything from him, Farage or anyone else you can name. You voted for the EU, not for Cameron. I voted against membership of the EU, not for Farage or a bunch of Brexit Tories who I didn't have much regard for. We both voted for ideas.


Too true - we who voted did so in support of "ideas". But not the one or two singular ones oft mentioned hereabouts (and not for any at all, with those who voted only on "my feelings").

When you voted for Remain as portrayed as a simple choice on a ballot paper, you also voted for a huge raft of other ideas that would have come with those politicians who would thereby gain ascendancy if Remain had "won". That would have been Cameron's Tory Party with it's ever-increasing austerity, privatisation and probably the TTIP, inclusive of the protection racket rewards to Big Corp and others with a government contract allowing them to fail then sue the government for their lost profits.

When you voted to Leave, you voted for whatever ideas have in fact emerged from the current chaos which, considering various forecasts, are all likely to result in a dystopia, perhaps even a fascist UK State or it's left-wing equivalent. Perhaps no UK at all, as it fragments into the original kingdoms or even smaller parishes. "Leave" came with as many, and perhaps more, consequential notion-promotions as did Remain, including various degrees of xenophobia up to and including racism; rabid nationalism of the kind often found as precursor to fascism; a desire for revolutionary acts likely to lead to the usual results of revolutions for both "the foreign" and most "native" citizens (death and degradation).

The referendum was a huge political error as it's been an enormous amplifier for all sorts of latent nastiness that might otherwise have remained just latent.

The apparently simple choice of Remain or Leave was never any such thing. Political decisions, especially ones of such moment, never are. And what we chose was also who we chose.

Cugel

You are drifting off onto different territory there. My point was solely about JRM, BoJo, etc not being influential in my wish to leave the EU, indeed, I found it uncomfortable voting the way they would want me to much as R2 would have felt a tinge of discomfort voting with George O and Cameron. And going back further in the thread, I feel that calling JRM Far Right (by which I imagine EDL) is just a mis-labelling. It may satisfy the desire to name calling but it is mis-labelling all the same. Tory Right is the term I would opt for. You can still dislike it with that term, but not confuse it with something of a different character.



But many were, even today there are those who still really believe Brexit will save the NHS .with an extra £350m as promised (ignorant if the fact that they kill medical research to achieve this figure)

Others believed that we would have all the Trade deals in place on Day 1

... and so on, many of the voters, voted for a utopian promise they were assured would happen by corrupt, dishonest and venal MPs

mercalia
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby mercalia » 16 Mar 2019, 4:49pm

I am surprised Farage hasnt been exploiting the yellow vest? The latest crop of them -
brexit 3.JPG

brexit.JPG

brexit 2.JPG

maybe this will happen here if Brexit is thwarted?

reohn2
Posts: 40147
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Mar 2019, 5:49pm

Cunobelin wrote:

But many were, even today there are those who still really believe Brexit will save the NHS .with an extra £350m as promised (ignorant if the fact that they kill medical research to achieve this figure)

Others believed that we would have all the Trade deals in place on Day 1

... and so on, many of the voters, voted for a utopian promise they were assured would happen by corrupt, dishonest and venal MPs

And others still believe immigration will be bought down to the 'tens of thousands' as Theresa May(not) promised when she became Home Sec, the same as she still spouts now even though at the last count was almost quarter of a million :roll: .
Others dreamers believe the moon is made of green cheese, and that unicorns playfully frolic on those sunny uplands outside Brexit.

Some of us believe in reality......
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Cugel
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Cugel » 16 Mar 2019, 5:55pm

pwa wrote:
Cugel wrote:
pwa wrote:Do we have to play this game? If Mogg supported something I already wanted, I don't care. I didn't get anything from him, Farage or anyone else you can name. You voted for the EU, not for Cameron. I voted against membership of the EU, not for Farage or a bunch of Brexit Tories who I didn't have much regard for. We both voted for ideas.


Too true - we who voted did so in support of "ideas". But not the one or two singular ones oft mentioned hereabouts (and not for any at all, with those who voted only on "my feelings").

When you voted for Remain as portrayed as a simple choice on a ballot paper, you also voted for a huge raft of other ideas that would have come with those politicians who would thereby gain ascendancy if Remain had "won". That would have been Cameron's Tory Party with it's ever-increasing austerity, privatisation and probably the TTIP, inclusive of the protection racket rewards to Big Corp and others with a government contract allowing them to fail then sue the government for their lost profits.

When you voted to Leave, you voted for whatever ideas have in fact emerged from the current chaos which, considering various forecasts, are all likely to result in a dystopia, perhaps even a fascist UK State or it's left-wing equivalent. Perhaps no UK at all, as it fragments into the original kingdoms or even smaller parishes. "Leave" came with as many, and perhaps more, consequential notion-promotions as did Remain, including various degrees of xenophobia up to and including racism; rabid nationalism of the kind often found as precursor to fascism; a desire for revolutionary acts likely to lead to the usual results of revolutions for both "the foreign" and most "native" citizens (death and degradation).

The referendum was a huge political error as it's been an enormous amplifier for all sorts of latent nastiness that might otherwise have remained just latent.

The apparently simple choice of Remain or Leave was never any such thing. Political decisions, especially ones of such moment, never are. And what we chose was also who we chose.

Cugel

You are drifting off onto different territory there. My point was solely about JRM, BoJo, etc not being influential in my wish to leave the EU, indeed, I found it uncomfortable voting the way they would want me to much as R2 would have felt a tinge of discomfort voting with George O and Cameron. And going back further in the thread, I feel that calling JRM Far Right (by which I imagine EDL) is just a mis-labelling. It may satisfy the desire to name calling but it is mis-labelling all the same. Tory Right is the term I would opt for. You can still dislike it with that term, but not confuse it with something of a different character.


When you or I vote, we vote for people. We may do so because a person espouses an idea we agree with. We cannot, though, absolve ourselves of voting for all the other ideas they have.

You can argue that the Brexit vote was not for people but an idea. In practice, it was for the people selling either Leave or Remain - people with a load of other ideas. You can't have just the idea you like (leave or remain) without other consequences, consequences due to the opportunities for other ideas to flourish via the "winners".

**********

The EDL is hardly political and calling it far-right misses the point that they are just a thug-gang spouting inchoate "politics" that is no more than racist slogans. Mogg and his ilk are seriously far right, as in favour of a draconian state organised to suppress opposition and support a small clique of self-seeking "leaders" who are after control and elimination of all opposition along with unfettered opportunity to increase their wealth and power via unfettered business practices and elimination of the public sphere other than as their private fiefdom.

You can believe their PR face if you like. Their actions speak for their true beliefs and intents.

Cugel

ambodach
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby ambodach » 16 Mar 2019, 6:12pm

Interesting to see what kind of extra bung is given to the Arlene Foster bunch in return for support.

pwa
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby pwa » 16 Mar 2019, 6:51pm

Cugel wrote:You can believe their PR face if you like. Their actions speak for their true beliefs and intents.

Cugel

I don't regard JRM and BoJo as the sort of people I would like as PM, but if you see no difference in outlook between them and the EDL I think you need to lay off the magic mushrooms.

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Mar 2019, 7:03pm

pwa wrote:
Cugel wrote:You can believe their PR face if you like. Their actions speak for their true beliefs and intents.

Cugel

I don't regard JRM and BoJo as the sort of people I would like as PM, but if you see no difference in outlook between them and the EDL I think you need to lay off the magic mushrooms.

They are the human face of the EDL,no actual connection that can be proven but the EDL are the kind of people that do JRM and BoJo's dirty work for them.
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reohn2
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Mar 2019, 7:06pm

ambodach wrote:Interesting to see what kind of extra bung is given to the Arlene Foster bunch in return for support.

The Tories will sell them their soul(if they have one)to the DUP to ensure they keep their support.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Bonefishblues » 16 Mar 2019, 7:10pm

reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:
Cugel wrote:You can believe their PR face if you like. Their actions speak for their true beliefs and intents.

Cugel

I don't regard JRM and BoJo as the sort of people I would like as PM, but if you see no difference in outlook between them and the EDL I think you need to lay off the magic mushrooms.

They are the human face of the EDL,no actual connection that can be proven but the EDL are the kind of people that do JRM and BoJo's dirty work for them.

I do think that you might be letting the depth of your hatred get in the way of rational thought.

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Mar 2019, 7:28pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:I don't regard JRM and BoJo as the sort of people I would like as PM, but if you see no difference in outlook between them and the EDL I think you need to lay off the magic mushrooms.

They are the human face of the EDL,no actual connection that can be proven but the EDL are the kind of people that do JRM and BoJo's dirty work for them.

I do think that you might be letting the depth of your hatred get in the way of rational thought.

NO.
You haven't worked in mining have you?
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Bonefishblues
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby Bonefishblues » 16 Mar 2019, 7:32pm

I didn't expect you to agree (you'll notice the absence of a question mark), but that's my honest perception.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby PDQ Mobile » 16 Mar 2019, 7:42pm

Bonefishblues wrote:I do think that you might be letting the depth of your hatred get in the way of rational thought.

Well I'm not sure.
Ress Mogg has some very extreme views not least about abortion.
Yet he is also a hypocrite willing to put those views aside in pursuit of profit.
Indeed little would hinder him in his quest for money and power. No environmental concerns no sympathy with poverty.

His utterances about the UK being a "vassal state" and that the referendum result was comparable to victory at the "Battle of Waterloo" seem to me to lend good credence to the existence of his extreme views.

He is in the same vein as many that attended Eton, that perverse anomaly.
Educated (well) to believe in their inherent superiority and a dangerous conviction of that with regard to the ordinary folk of these islands.
His backing by the Daily Mail, which garnishes middle class indignation and morality, with a huge dose of sexual titilation and "othering" of minority groups, is a further indication of really how far to the right the man is.
My personal view of him is that he is deeply damaged by his education and upbringing, and heaven forbid he would ever gain more real power than he has at present.
He has many of the attributes and coldness of a man who can successfully rouse and lead a dangerous and intolerant rabble.
Beware of him. Beware of his voice.
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 16 Mar 2019, 7:44pm, edited 1 time in total.

reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Mar 2019, 7:43pm

Bonefishblues wrote:I didn't expect you to agree (you'll notice the absence of a question mark), but that's my honest perception.

You're allowed an opinion like anyone else.
But look at the state of the nation,and tell me who and what have lead it there.
And if we leave the EU things will get even worse for the ordinary working wo/man.
The likes of JRM,May and their cohorts will capitalise on it as the country goes down the tubes.
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reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: ** The Brexit Thread ** - 'Brexit Means Brexit'

Postby reohn2 » 16 Mar 2019, 8:07pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I do think that you might be letting the depth of your hatred get in the way of rational thought.

Well I'm not sure.
Ress Mogg has some very extreme views not least about abortion.
Yet he is also a hypocrite willing to put those views aside in pursuit of profit.
Indeed little would hinder him in his quest for money and power. No environmental concerns no sympathy with poverty.

His utterances about the UK being a "vassal state" and that the referendum result was comparable to victory at the "Battle of Waterloo" seem to me to lend good credence to the existence of his extreme views.

He is in the same vein as many that attended Eton, that perverse anomaly.
Educated (well) to believe in their inherent superiority and a dangerous conviction of that with regard to the ordinary folk of these islands.
His backing by the Daily Mail, which garnishes middle class indignation and morality, with a huge dose of sexual titilation and "othering" of minority groups, is a further indication of really how far to the right the man is.
My personal view of him is that he is deeply damaged by his education and upbringing, and heaven forbid he would ever gain more real power than he has at present.
He has many of the attributes and coldness of a man who can successfully rouse and lead a dangerous and intolerant rabble.
Beware of him. Beware of his voice.

Spot on and then some,the man is evil along with BoJo,May,Fox,Farage,etc,etc.They are to decency what a rat is to cleanliness
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